Speaking in Tongues and Prayer Language
Hi! Can someone tell me if I can start another post rather than comment on someone else’s post? If so, how do I do that? I would like to discuss the question of Holy Ghost tongues and whether we should pray in an unknown language as Christians or if it was simply something that was used as a sign in the early church for the unbelieving gentiles; and also the question of whether tithe is a new testament commandment or not.
Part of the answer, of course, is that this is one of my personal blogs and therefore only I can write new posts, but I’m going to go ahead a provide a post on this topic and see who would like to discuss it. This post will be on the gift of tongues, particularly where it is interpreted as a prayer language rather than speaking an earthly foreign language not known to the speaker.
I’m not going to write much here, except to say that I believe one can receive a spiritual gift of a prayer language, that in accordance with 1 Corinthians 12, this gift is not for everyone, and according to 1 Corinthians 14, this gift is not for use in the public worship service, at least as a general rule.
Because of this I do not believe that there is a necessary separate experience of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Anyone who accepts Christ has already received the Holy Spirit. One can, however, experience the Holy Spirit in special ways at various points in one’s Christian experience.
I have edited the following pamphlets that relate to these topics. These do not 100% reflect my own views. I edited these from the input of a number of people in the charismatic movement within Methodism. They are fairly close to my own view, however.
I Want the Baptism of the Holy Spirit (pamphlet)
Spiritual Gifts: Speaking in Tongues (pamphlet)
Gifts and Offices (pamphlet)
Thoughts on Lists of Spiritual Gifts
1 Corinthians 12-14 Greek Terms
I would call that a fair amount of reading!
If we have a good response to this post, I will provide another for discussion of tithing.
My 2c worth – the gift of tongues is a good gift – ask and receive and accept it if you so desire. You will be called in the use of this gift to live according to your consecration in Christ Jesus – and it may be more difficult than simply giving up control over your lips and tongue. But our God is good and all God’s gifts are good and for our growth and therefore not to be thought of as only for someone else nor even to be thought of as obligatory or not or forbidden or not. Every gift of God, every created thing is good and to be received with thanksgiving. Tongues turn into something beautiful even if it is only for your own edification. Sing too.
I agree with all you say here. My emphasis in the post was that I don’t believe the gift is required. Your point about enjoying and not forcing is very well taken.
Wow! I didn’t expect such overwhelming response! Ask and you shall receive! Thanks for caring enough to write so much. I apologize however if I am still a little shaky about this, even with all the material you provided. I read somewhere in that said material something about the belief that many people hold which is: there are two kinds of “tongues”; the tongues that are a gift used for edifying the church, and the tongues used for personal edification of every believer which is used in personal prayer.” I was a minister in an organization that claimed this belief to be the truth. I am exploring this doctrine, specifically, and would like to ask you to help me (if you have the time) to examine this doctrine a little bit more closely. Two heads are better than one, as testified by the Wright brothers, and of course the church with all of it’s offices and gifts, as you so have brought to scriptural light.
My concern is, if this is true, than it ought to be scripturally clear. If it is found to be true, than we all ought to be teaching it: that every new believer ought to (as many churches proclaim) seek the baptism of the Holy Ghost, with the initial evidence being that you speak with new tongues as the Spirit of God gives utterance.
On this, can you explain what the pamphlet that you shared with me (I understand that you made it clear that they do not all express 100% of your personal views) means when it says that many times, if not most of the time, a believer who is baptized in the Holy Ghost will speak in tongues? The pamphlet explains that all the times that the full description of the Holy Ghost baptism in the book of Acts is given, the fact that they spoke in tongues is told. My question, which is of course not challenging you, is this (if you know the answer): what constitutes a complete description of a case of a Holy Ghost baptism in the book of Acts? Which details must be present in order for it to be considered a full description, in other words.
Not to distract from that point, as my hope is to resolve the above question before really moving on from it, but there is also perhaps another point that should be resolved, because the organization I came from taught that you can be saved without the Holy Ghost baptism (with evidence of speaking in tongues), and you will receive the Holy Ghost upon salvation, but unless you speak in tongues, you don’t have the baptism “in, with, and of the Holy Ghost” as they say it. And therefore, you will have very little chance of getting to Heaven, because eventually you will be taken by temptation and leave God. If those who claim that praying in unknown tongues is required for holy living, shouldn’t it be clear in scripture that this is so important, and for ALL believers? I am just asking if there is evidence from the scripture that absolutely supports such claims, even if you don’t believe in it yourself, I would just like to know where in the Bible they derive this doctrine.
I have no problem accepting that every believer should be baptized, because Jesus was even baptized. Mat 3:16. Peter said we need to be baptized for the remission of sins in Acts 2:38. Jesus said except you be born of water and of the Spirit you can not see the kingdom of God. And over and over again, when the disciples preached to people, and they believed, it is recorded many times, that they were baptized. The 3,000 who were added to the church on the day of Pentecost, we are told by scripture that they were baptized. No mention is made of them speaking in new tongues. Then, the next detailed account of a group of people being saved is, I would say, Phillip preaching in ch.8. There, we are told that they were baptized, and then received the Holy Ghost. No mention is made of them speaking in tongues. There are many instances where baptism is sure to be mentioned, while there is no mention of tongues in the conversion of sinners to saints. And each time the Holy Ghost tongues are mentioned on conversion, baptism does not fail to be mentioned as well. My point is that, when God wanted it to be clear to us that baptism is necessary for salvation, He took the time to make sure it was seen as a doctrine with more than one scriptural witness, and also we see it clearly, specifically mentioned in possibly every detailed occasion of conversion in Acts.
However, I don’t want to just take sides so hastily. I think we should examine the scripture quoting Peter. He did say that if they repented and were baptized, they would receive the GIFT of the Holy Ghost. Should we take this to mean that you will speak in tongues when you repent and are baptized? Also, not every detailed case of conversion states that the people actually repented, or were even told to repent, but we know you must repent for the kingdom of Heaven is at hand. Without holiness no man shall see the Lord, according to Heb 12:14. Perhaps one could argue that all of the requirements of salvation are not mentioned in every account, but all the requirements are still required, and therefore even if not all accounts of conversion include the speaking in tongues, it is still one of the requirements for true salvation and/ or to continue in God’s grace. Please forgive me if this is too lengthy, but I really would like to get some kind of closure in this that I can practice and preach to others.
I could go on and on about Paul’s teaching in Ch. 14. Many of the things he says seem to say that we should speak in tongues on our own, for our own personal edification, but I can’t see how he is stating that you need to do it, or you won’t make it and Satan will eventually get your heart back into a life of sin and separation from God. However, if this is not a heretical doctrine, and is true, than I don’t want to ignore it, and I don’t want people to be destroyed because I taught it’s okay if you don’t do it.
I look at the first 2 examples where there does not seem to be any instruction of how they will do it prior to doing it. They just began doing it. But most of the time I have heard of or seen anyone get baptized with the Holy Ghost, they had to sit there sweating for a long time, while some music was played, and some people lifted up their arms, yelling things, like come on! Pray! Pray in the Holy Ghost! and then they speak in tongues in front of them as if to coach them as to how to pray in the Holy Ghost. When I prayed in tongues, it was not spontaneous. I had to do it myself. I was not in a trance. I didn’t just all of a sudden speak in tongues in some supernatural way, but I made some unintelligible noise with my mouth on purpose, and afterwards, for the longest time, I wondered, was that just me, or really the Holy Ghost?
Some people think that Paul is going back and forth in I Cor chapter 14, speaking about the gift of tongues for the edification of the church, and speaking about tongues for personal edification. That he is saying in the church, it should be done in order with an interpreter, but that when done in private, no man understands him, but he speaks mysteries in the spirit, so this is to mean that we should privately pray in a language that no man understands, and by doing this, we will pray about the things we don’t know to pray about (the mysteries).
They claim that Paul is also talking about personal prayer alone when he says: 1Co 14:4 He who speaks in another language edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the assembly.
1Co 14:5 Now I desire to have you all speak with other languages, …
And they claim that these are evidence that we should all pray in tongues to edify ourselves.
They also claim that tongues is a language that the devil can not understand, and that, by praying this way, the Holy Spirit is praying to the Father on our behalf to the Father, the things that we don’t know to pray. Is the verse that states that the spirit uses groanings that can not be uttered really a good verse to back this up?
I think if this really was true, that it is necessary, God would have made it clear that we need to speak in tongues in order to keep our soul from dying spiritually.
I’m going to try to be brief and just clarify a few points, and then we can discuss more specifics. If we get into broad topics, I may create new blog posts for specific issues.
1) I personally don’t believe that speaking in tongues is the required or predominant sign of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. I say this despite what I said regarding incidents in Acts and also the experience of many that I know. There are a couple of reasons. First, in Acts there is even an incident where speaking in tongues comes before baptism. Second, most of these stories are conversion stories, and would argue as forcefully that baptism of the Holy Spirit is coincident with conversion. Third, there is the simple statement of 1 Corinthians 12:29-30, in which there are a series of questions written to elicit the answer “no.” In each case, including tongues, not everyone does it. Even if the questions were not written in the way that they are, the context of the passage would make it clear that Paul is saying that not everyone has every gift.
2) I don’t place much stock in the notion of trying to keep the devil from understanding my prayers. I think that carries over a spiritual warfare metaphor a bit too far into operational security, and I don’t see where it’s supported by scripture. In fact, I am very wary of any suggestion that one must pray in a certain way in order to get certain results. The Lord’s prayer provides a certain pattern, but there are many variations in scripture. I believe firmly that God answers prayer better than we pray it. Prayer is not magic, needing to be uttered precisely in the correct fashion like a spell.
3) 1 Corinthians 14 deals with the worship service, and I think largely speaks of a type of spiritual prayer language. Let me note that my own experience with a prayer language is very positive, but speaking in tongues in a worship service accomplishes little. If the “tongue” is a foreign language, then the normal scriptural application would be for speaking to someone who could understand that language. Paul restricts speaking in tongues to times when an interpretation is available, but that seems to me to be a concession rather than a prescription. I believe he preferred that this type of spiritual activity be done privately and not in the worship service.
Finally, as to how clear all of this is, I see almost everything I have said as outside the bounds of the essential. Christians can disagree on these things. I would disagree strongly with those who claim that a certain experience, outside of conversion and incorporation into the body of Christ, is required. I do believe that requiring a particular spiritual gift of all is unscriptural.
Everyone who has accepted Christ has receive the Holy Spirit and is gifted. The purpose of the gifts is to build the church and God gives according to His will.
This doesn’t mean I deny all experiences of baptism of the Holy Spirit. I believe there can be many special experiences of the presence and action of the Spirit. What I do believe is unscriptural is the idea that this represents stages in the Christian experience or differences in the status of various believers, such as Spirit-filled believers vs others.
I’ll be happy to respond though it would be better to address one point at a time in comments.
Interesting observation. I was always taught that the devils couldn’t understand the ‘prayer language’. Where is this found in the Bible?
It is also weird because I was also taught that the prayer language was the tongues of angels.
If devils were angels, shouldn’t devils understand the prayer language?
Or, I bet if you press the issue, you will get pentecostals to invent a theory that the Babel effect, a judgment from God, took place so that angels had different tongues as well as demons. I haven’t heard this one yet, but you can see how imagination can invent new doctrines to cover up the holes in the ones which misapply Scripture.
Thanks for that. I really agree with you very much, but it is scary to let go of a doctrine that you have been taught for so many years. They really make you think you have to do it or else you will not make it into Heaven. I wish I could just feel confident in abandoning such nonsense, but I just don’t want to find out that I was wrong someday, and be eternally sorry. Boy, I am glad I can read the Bible for myself. God, please give me the ability to see the truth in the scripture, and to be confident in it.
Could you give your opinion on tithe now? Because, from what I have read in the Old Testament, when the people gave their tithe, they actually ate of their own tithe, and even fed their family with it, and their servants, too. Also, the priest partook of it. Today, you just give the pastor your money, and that’s it. You don’t use any of it for yourself. Also, the priests weren’t supposed to work a job, only work for the Lord. I don’t see anything in the epistles or Acts pertaining to tithe specifically. However, Jesus did tell the Jews that they should do this and not leave the other undone when he was speaking of their tithe. That seems to mean he was telling them to use justice and also pay their tithe, too. So, it is mentioned in the New Testament as being something you should do. And people also say that since it was ordained before the law, it should stand after the law.
I am curious. I believe strongly in speaking in tongues. There was a very low period in my life that I spoke in tongues as much as I could. I would like to know other opinons on this: I can speak in tongues naturally that sometimes the words that I use are spiritual language not normal English, but at the time I respond like this I understand what I mean. Is this unusual?
In my experience, it is not unusual. Individual experiences vary considerably. While I oppose pressure, such as telling people that if they don’t speak in tongues they are less spiritual (which is not a scriptural position, in my view), I think those with the gift should practice it as led by the Holy Spirit. Be mindful, of course, of the strictures from 1 Corinthians 14 on public use.
The bottom line on any spiritual gift is: If you have the gift, use it in love (1 Corinthians 13) as God directs.
Thanks for the response Henry. I appreciate it.
Years ago, the desire to pray in tongues came to me unbidden. I do not belong to an organized church (raised Catholic and have remained distant from the Church), but I am deeply prayerful. Speaking in tongues remains with me and the desire to do so arrives with a deep sense to pray for the dying, or for someone who needs healing prayer. I feel compelled to pray, even as I become weak and tearful. I must and I do. I would like to know more and be more helpful. I do not feel that I need to join a church.
i have been sending a prophetic word around the world that declares the intial evidence doctrine to be a legacy of error that has weakened and divided the church for too long,that proves beyond doubt to any born of the Spirit that we have all received the baptism of the Spirit,and power from on high.this doctrine has robbed many of their spiritual experience, behold and be amazed they have made Gods house a den of thieves, but this word that i have will overturn their doctrine like the Lord did with the money changers in the temple. any desiring this word contact me through this website and i will send it to you freely, for i received it the same way. i sang in tongues minutes after being saved for hours, and attended a pentecostal church.
I need some insight and guidance.
I have had a deep disire to speak in my own personal prayer language and have prayed for and been prayed over for the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Nothing out of the ordinary happened and I did not feel any change.
However, about 5 years ago I was helping out with a teen retreat and was at a point in my life where I was in great spiritual bondage and God did a miraculous healing on me. I broke out in laughter for 2 days and passed out in the spirit twice during deep prayer times without anyone laying a hand on me or praying over me on two different ocassions through the weekend. I was also healed of seizures that I had for 12 years about 8 years ago.
I say this because I know without a shadow of a doubt that God’s spirit has done amazing works inside of me and from what I would consider, has completely inhabited me and changed me for life.
So my questions are these:
Is it possible to be baptized with the Holy Spirit without directly asking for it?
Am I not feeling anything after praying for the baptism of the Holy Spirit because I already have it?
If I do have it, why can I not speak in toungues?
If I do not have it, why can’t I get it/ why am I not seeing manifestations?
Am I doing something wrong?
As I have argued elsewhere (see the links in this post), I don’t believe that speaking in tongues or having a prayer language is necessary or sole evidence of having the baptism of the Holy Spirit. In fact, I only use the phrase “Baptism of the Holy Spirit” with some concern, because I think it is much understood.
The one who came after John the Baptist was to baptize with the Holy Spirit (Mark 1:8). I believe that everyone who has accepted Christ has received the Holy Spirit. There can be additional experiences of the Holy Spirit, and there are instances in the New Testament when one receives the Holy Spirit after baptism (Acts 8:15-16). Paul makes it clear that not everyone receives any particular gift (1 Cor. 12).
Also, speaking in tongues as described in Acts 2 is the speaking of foreign languages, not a prayer language. This differs from what Paul describes in 1 Cor. 14. There is no scriptural reason to privilege tongues above other gifts as the evidence of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.
I don’t know you personally, but I see nothing wrong in the experience you have described. Let the Lord lead as He will, and continue to listen!
Actually it is not true that once you are saved you are filled with the holy spirit. In fact it takes a baptism or a overflowing of the holy spirit to truly carry the holy spirit. I’m not good at memorizing exact verses but i can tell you that Paul asked some if they had been saved and they said yes and then he asked them if they received the holy spirit and they had not. Paul then prayed for them to receive the holy spirit and then they started speaking in tongues. Everyone who is truly saved by a real confession of Jesus Christ as lord feels and experiences the holy spirit but not everyone of them is baptized in the Spirit. The spiritual gifts or at least most of them can come only through a baptism of the holy spirit. Speaking in tongues is the greatest and most common evidence of this baptism. If you are not baptized in the spirit and you want to be then seek God very strongly and worship him without seizing very strongly. It is not a hard thing but you must push on in worship past getting tired. I tell you that i know what i am talking about because i speak in tongues more often and more fluently then anyone i know and seemingly more then anyone i have met. It is very real. After all, God does not change and neither do the gifts of the Spirit.
I’m afraid I consider your comment almost entirely incorrect starting with the first sentence. If you’re interested in my scriptural basis for saying so, see the links in this post. I would also refer you to two books, one that I wrote, and another that I publish. The first is Identifying Your Gifts and Service: Small Group Edition, in which I discuss the gifts of the Spirit. While I certainly affirm speaking in tongues as a gift of the Spirit, it does not have a privileged place amongst the gifts. According to Paul’s discussion at the end of 1 Corinthians 12, it is also not a gift that is received by everyone–no gift is.
The second is Holy Smoke! Unholy Fire! by Dr. Robert C. McKibben, who deals with the issue of conversion and reception of the Holy Spirit.
Well, God just gave me the manifestation last night at the prayer shack! I now can speak in tongues!
I would like to ask another question though. When do you know to speak in tongues, I mean, when is the best time?
It sadens me to see theological bickering, I pray peace and love upon you
I thank God for his blessing on you. I don’t see speaking in tongues as something I plan for. It happens when it happens. Paul gives guidance for public meetings, however, in 1 Corinthians 14, which I take very seriously.
dear sir, what is your belief concerning the statements that Christ made concerning “when the unclean spirit comes out of a man, he walks thru waterless place. then he goes and enters the man again and takes along with him 7 more spirits more evil than himself” ” but when the strong man comes in, he casts all of them out.
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