Threads from Henry's Web

Category: Christianity

  • Are Seventh-day Adventists Christians?

    This question, which I’ve written about before, was brought to my attention again both through reading and through some conversations. As an ex-Seventh-day Adventist, I’m often asked whether I believe my former denomination is truly Christian, or whether it is some sort of cult. Ignoring what I consider the hopeless muddle in the usage of the term “cult,” I suppose I could divide this question into two, neither of which I actually like. I’m going to use Methodists throughout as the foil for this discussion, because I am a member of a United Methodist congregation. Note that I prefer to call myself a Christian who is a member of a United Methodist congregation rather than a “Methodist” or “United Methodist.”

    The first would be to ask whether the Seventh-day Adventist Church is a Christian denomination. I dislike this question, because I think “denomination” is largely an extra-Christian idea. I’m not going to throw out all concepts of denominations simply because they can provide accountability to congregations, something lacking amongst independent churches. Both independent churches and denominational churches have their share of problems, but neither reflects the kind of connections that I believe a Christian congregation or assembly should have. I would like to be held accountable by my brethren in Baptist churches as well as in the United Church of Christ. As for Seventh-day Adventists, I would say the same thing. They suffer from all the problems of being a denomination, but they also are brethren to which I would like to be connected, and in a sense, accountable.

    The second option would be to ask if members of the Seventh-day Adventist Church are Christian. I think this is worse. It identifies membership in the body of Christ with membership in a particular human organization. However, my answer would be that it is about as likely for a Seventh-day Adventist church member to be a Christian as a United Methodist church member. Probably a bunch of people in each are not.

    That leads me to a question I was asked regarding evangelism. If I was discussing Jesus with people, and this led to the idea of getting involved in a local assembly of believers, would I be willing to refer someone to a Seventh-day Adventist congregation? Hmmm! Now the rubber meets the road. Do I really mean it when I call SDAs Christian brethren? The answer here is that I’d do so on the same basis as I would refer someone to a Methodist congregation, with the additional note that I’d be specific about SDA distinctives. In other words, it would depend on the congregation. I know plenty of Methodist churches to which I would not refer a seeker. I know quite I number to which I would. The same issues would be in play. Where I think I might have more questions about an SDA congregation would be in whether the distinctives of the denomination got ahead of the gospel. But that is not a problem that is exclusive to SDAs. Any denomination, in fact, any independent church, is quite susceptible to replacing the gospel with its own distinctives, and even viewing the gospel as synonymous with its traditions.

    Now there’s a certain arrogance to this post. Who am I to decide who is a Christian and who is not? Nobody. Absolutely nobody. It’s not my job. What I do have to decide, what I think I have scriptural warrant to decide, is how I will help connect others to the body of Christ, and to do that I must discern. If I believe that I am referring someone to a place where they will be torn apart by judgment rather than led to join fellow overcomers, then I must choose some place else. But God is the only one who knows what’s on the inside, i.e. who is a “true” believer.

  • Our Emphasis in Responding to Issues in Society

    I burden my post with a somewhat long title, but it could be longer. The question is where do I put my focus when I respond to what is going on today. Now many readers are going to make assumptions as to what my beliefs are on the issues I use as examples, but I’m not talking about what our particular position on the issue is, but rather what is our first response.

    Dave Black wrote about this on his blog, and with his (blanket) permission, I’ve extracted this to The Jesus Paradigm site supporting his book by the same name, because Dave’s blog doesn’t allow linking to particular posts.

    Early on, he says (quoting an e-mail he wrote):

    I wonder why we in the church focus so much of our attention on gay marriage when it is so easy to overlook the sins that so easily beset us, such as gluttony and divorce….

    My observation is that often in the church when we decide to “call sin by its right name,” we really mean that we will call other people’s sins by their right names. I tell people there are clean sins and dirty sins. (What? Where did I get that in Scripture?) No, it’s not in Scripture, it’s in our practice. “Clean sins” are the ones I commit. “Dirty sins” are the ones you commit. Dave brings up gluttony. I’m overweight. That’s pretty good evidence that I have sinned. But it’s easier for me to go on a crusade about some other problem than to address that one, because as I address the sin of gluttony, I address myself, and that isn’t so comfortable. Now I’ve lost some weight, and I need to lose more, and contrary to all the various diet plans, what I really need to do in order to accomplish that is quit committing that particular sin.

    Now I said it’s easier for me to crusade against other sins. That’s true. Easier for me. But it’s not more effective. When people see you committing seven (or more) sins of your own regularly and then going after someone else’s problem, one with which you do not struggle, they are rarely impressed. It’s more effective to say, “Here’s what I need to overcome. Come along with me and let’s be overcomers together.”

    These days when we talk about “issues” people automatically assume the issue is same-sex marriage. I’ve had people assume I was saying things about that topic when I absolutely wasn’t thinking about it at all. So let’s use gluttony as an example. What should the church’s primary response be to the sin of gluttony? I think we can all agree that excess weight is not good for our health. It would be good if we maintained more healthy bodies.

    Should we make laws? Perhaps we should join the crusade by the former mayor of New York City to reduce the maximum size of soft drink that people can purchase. Perhaps we should change food packaging laws or make regulations about the fat and calorie content of various foods. No, I’m not talking here about the value of such laws. I’m not concerned with whether those moves would be good or bad for the country and for us. I’m asking what should our first response be as Christians.

    And that, I would suggest, must always be the gospel. “Just look at the sort of love that God has given us, letting us be called children of God. And we are” (1 John 3:1)! What is it that God will do for His children? What possible reason can we have, as Christians, for offering something else first? It’s so human to go straight for cleaning someone else up, thinking somehow that his sins are dirtier than ours, before we offer the gospel.

    But you say that there are so many people in our churches who have these problems. Well, I have a simple answer to that too. Offer them the gospel. No, not a theological lesson (though it is theology at its best), but membership in the family with the invitation to grow right there with it, to grow in a group of people who love you and realize they are also in the process of growing.

    I’m not saying not to think of political solutions. I believe in being involved. I’m at the polls for every vote for which I’m eligible. But as Christians, our solution to everything from drug addiction to an attitude of judgment toward others should be the good news about Jesus, not forced on others because we need to fix them, but offered to others so we can grow together.

    As Dave concludes:

    I believe it’s time to stop seeking God in the misguided and erroneous teachings of do-goodism, whether the source is liberalism or conservatism. Jesus Christ is the only answer to the malaise plaguing our families, our churches, and our society.

  • A Liberal Adventist Pastor and Young Atheists

    Pastor John T. McLarty, a Seventh-day Adventist who blogs at Liberal Adventist Pastor has posted his sermon for today, titled Church and Young Atheists as well as another related piece Questions My Kids Ask, written for the Green Lake Church Gazette.

    I mostly want you to go, read these posts, and hopefully comment and enter the discussion. What I want to add here is that we need more pastors to try to hear what young people are saying, learn what they’re thinking and see how the church can respond. I have friends who are very leery of the idea of the church, or God, trying to be relevant. They suggest we should become relevant to God. And I agree that the end result is supposed to be that we become more Christ-like, more God-like. But I see the whole story of the Bible as God becoming relevant to us first, so that we have the opportunity to move on from there.

    Too much of the discussion of young people that I hear has to do with our stereotypes of who they are and what they are doing. For example, there’s the stereotype of the atheist who was hurt at church and therefore really hates the church and not God. And, like most stereotypes, there’s a basis for this. There are many people who have distanced themselves from faith because of the people in the church.

    But there are also those like the young lady Pastor McLarty describes, who have simply found too many things they were asked to believe by the church that they couldn’t manage. They aren’t really atheists. They disbelieve a number of things they were taught, are unsure about many others, and they have more important things to do with their lives than to try to create their own theological system.

    Further, there are those I would call real atheists. These are people who have come to the conclusion for various reasons that there is no God. And yes, my Christian friends, these people exist. You can tell yourself that they aren’t real, that deep down they do believe and are just rebels. I’m sure it’s comforting at some level to pretend that this form of rejection of everything you hold dear doesn’t actually exist. But it does. Not only that, they’re generally good people, great neighbors, and credits to their communities.

    Why am I saying all of this? Simply to say that in any conversation on any topic we need to listen to what the other person has to say and then respond to them, not to a label. And Pastor McLarty is quite correct that for those he was referring to, rolling out proofs of God’s existence isn’t really relevant. In fact, I rarely find that rolling out proofs of God’s existence, all of which are quite inadequate in so many ways, is the best approach. These “proofs” answer certain objections in certain ways, but they don’t really prove that the Christian God is real.

    But that is another subject …

  • Allan Bevere and a Third Way

    Recently on Facebook Allan Bevere commented that he had taken the road less traveled and now he didn’t know where he was. Sometimes I think I resemble that remark.

    But wherever Allan is, we may be neighbors, as he talks about a third way, avoiding liberal/progressive and conservative, in this interview on the WesleyCast. I’ve been thinking about writing something about the danger of moderate pride as well. It’s easy to sneer at all the people who post their overdone political notes on Facebook, with the reason of the moment that the world is coming to an end. But then there is the complacency of having the wisdom to avoid all such overblown statements.

    But there are a number of key elements that I think are important. Perhaps I’ll have to make some overblown statements of my own. At times one may need to be a bit over the top in order to get people’s attention. Allan’s comments are largely on current issues in the United Methodist Church, but they have wide applicability.

    So here are some key points, in my own words. (Listen to the interview for Allan’s take on them):

    • It’s not about always choosing the middle way. It’s about seeing all the ways and then choosing what works. That’s why I’m sometimes told I’m not moderate, but rather liberal or conservative. I take the fact that I’ve been accused of both fundamentalism and liberalism as a good thing.
    • It can be just as important to understand why I make particular choices as it is to make the right ones. I think being accidentally right is not particularly helpful. It’s hard to repeat!
    • As Christians we should be about connection first, I think. Allan’s suggestion of having communion together more often would be very, very helpful. The problem is, we don’t always regard those who disagree with us as Christians. Perhaps the idea of “open communion” should be pushed more vigorously. Breaking bread with someone is not an endorsement of all their views. It is simply a statement that one desires fellowship.
    • Let’s examine the roots of our beliefs more closely.
    • Let’s examine the priorities of our beliefs more closely. For example, I find it interesting that many Christians believe that movies with explicit sexual scenes are unacceptable, yet will accept extreme violence. Is this the result of our cultural prejudices or of considering what is good for our spiritual lives?

    Well, those are some random thoughts. Mostly I want you to listen to Allan’s interview and hear what he has to say.

     

  • Bible Study for Monday, July 28

    Well, we didn’t do so well this past Monday, but a new week is coming! On Monday, July 28, we will meet again via Google Hangouts, with the announcement via e-mail (if you’ve requested one), or on my Google+ page.

    Jody has already posted the question for this coming Monday and the scriptures:

    The Scriptures for this week are:
    Isaiah 55:1-5
    Psalm 145:8-21
    Romans 9:1-5
    Matthew 14:13-21

    Opening question is: What legacy will you leave your family and friends? Or What legacy did your parents leave you?

    I’d simply focus in on the word “legacy.” Start with Romans 9:1-5 and work outward. I suggest reading all of Psalm 145 and Isaiah 55. If you haven’t read all of Romans 9-11 recently, try that as well. It puts the question of Romans 9:1-5 into some context. I’ve found that those on the Arminian side of the divide people tend not to like Romans 9-11 very much. When I took Exegesis of Romans as an undergraduate, we didn’t make it out of chapter 8. The semester ended and there we were!

    I recall one discussion group I was leading as we studied the book of Hebrews and its connections with other scriptures. Suddenly in the middle of one session one of the members stopped us all by exclaiming, “Wow! You’d almost think there was a plan!”

    Yeah, you just might at that. Look for the plan. Look for the legacy.

  • The Lively Inspiration of Scripture

    A Living Bible. Process theology affirms the lively inspiration of scripture. God was at work in the communities that shaped our written scriptures and in the various writers who penned the library of texts we call the Bible. Profoundly historical, biblical inspiration varies from verse to verse and chapter to chapter. Some biblical messages have universal applicability; others are time bound and, frankly, no longer relevant to our current scientific, ethical, and theological understandings

    . (Process Theology: Embracing Adventure with God, 19)

    This is from the material we will be discussing in The Way Sunday School class at First UMC Pensacola tomorrow.

    We’ve completed our study of Ecclesiastes, and are moving to the opposite end of the theological spectrum with this new book. We’ll spend two weeks on this small book, and then we’ve decided to continue with a study of my book When People Speak for God.

    One of the goals of this class is to look at a variety of viewponts, learn and evaluate.

  • What Do We Judge?

    Tonight’s topic for our Bible study on Google Hangouts comes from the parable of the wheat and the weeds (Matt. 13:24-43). To me, this passage is as interesting for the other passages it evokes as it is for what it says. And like many parables, it seems to raise as many questions as it answers.

    If I were to summarize the way I hear the parable myself, I’d say: Be patient with all the problems and questionable people because God will sort it all out in the end.

    Thus it becomes another “Judge not” passage.

    But this is where other passages start parading their way through my mind. There’s Matthew 7:1, yes, and oh so plain. But then there’s also Matthew 7:20, telling us we will know them by their fruit. Know who? Well, false prophets. Is it possible that any of the weeds could be false prophets?

    Then there’s Hebrews 5:14, where we learn that mature people have learned to distinguish good from evil. Is this just good vs evil ideas or does it include false prophets, for example. And just how do we get from Matthew 7:1 to 1 Corinthians 5, in which certain people are given to Satan?

    Logic I tervenes as well, as I judge each word I write in this post. Ah, but that’s just judging things, right? But I will invite my Google+ circles to our hangout, and not others, demonstrating that I have made judgments there as well.

    Perhaps this whole issue of judgment isn’t as easy as we thought. Let’s discuss it tonight! I’ll post a link on my Google+ page and here on this blog.

    PS: Remember to read the other lectionary texts as well. I think they speak to this issue in interesting ways.

  • Next Week’s Bible Study

    Our first try didn’t go that well. I spent a couple of hours talking to folks about technical issues. You ned to have Google hangouts working. If you want I can test it with you sometime before the study.

    This coming week we’ll be studying for proper 11A, and we have selected Isaiah 44:6-8, Psalm 139 (I prefer reading the whole Psalm), Romans 8:12-25, and Matthew 24:24-30, 36-43.

    Jody has already posted our lead question:

    Can we, and should we, distinguish the weeds and wheat in our lives and experience?

    Focus on the meaning of the wheat and weeds in our gospel passage. What do these represent in the parable?

    There are quite a number of ways to approach the Lectionary passages in a study. We could choose a specific passage to study, for example. What we’ve chosen to do is to focus on a theme that is touched on in the various passages.

    I see some help with our question from Psalm 139. Who really knows? Who really knows who is what? I see a similar theme in Matthew 7:1 and Matthew 7:15-20. Where and when does each instruction apply?

    Join us this coming Monday at 7 pm central time. I’ll post an invitation to all my circles on my Google+ page about a half an hoir before we start.

  • New Monday Night Bible Study

    My wife Jody and I will be leading a Monday night Bible study via Google Hangouts. Everyone is invited. Jody already posted about it, and her post includes the initial question and the scriptures for tonight.

    We thought about many approaches to choosing our texts, and we finally settled on using the current readings from the Revised Common Lectionary. These will be the readings for the Sunday following the study. Jody will list these in her post along with an opening question (or so).

    We’re not planning to formally “teach” this. This is a time for people who come from various perspectives and places to study together. Doubtless I will have and express many opinions. For best results, you should read the texts ahead of time and do some of the exegetical work.

    I’ll open the hangout a bit before the formal time for the study (7 pm central time), post the invitation to my Google+ page, and e-mail a link to anyone who has requested it. If you follow me on Google+ you won’t need a special e-mail. You can use the Google+ notifications that you normally use.

    If you’d like a link e-mailed, just e-mail me at henry@energion.com and request it. I’ll be glad to send you a link.

  • From My Editing Work: Personal Salvation vs the Social Gospel

    From Seven Marks of a New Testament Church by David Alan Black, p. 6:

    In the fourth place, evangelism in the New Testament was always characterized by genuine concern for the social needs of the lost. When I was in seminary, a good deal of distrust existed between those who emphasized personal salvation in evangelism and those who emphasized the so-called social gospel. The two, however, are indivisible.

    (forthcoming … at the printer)