Threads from Henry's Web

Category: Christianity

  • Allies for Evolution, not Everything

    Update: Jack Krebs has now posted a longer summary of the talk and links to audio files. I haven’t listened to the audio yet, but I don’t see anything in the summary that would alter my view on this. I’m glad Jack and Kansas Citizens for Science made sure to get good audio of this. (2nd update: I somehow left out the link to Jack’s post, and have now added it.)

    I’m regularly annoyed by angry recriminations that occur when someone discovers that the various people in favor of sound science education and specifically on the teaching of evolution don’t actually agree on all aspects of life, the universe and everything. Currently there is a flap about remarks by Kenneth Miller. Since I don’t have a transcript of those remarks I’m not going to try to critique those remarks. PZ Myers, however, has a rather angry post on Pharyngula calling Ken Miller a creationist because he suggested that creationists’ attacks were misdirected, and should be directed instead at folks like Dawkins.

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  • Witnessing and Proselytizing

    Continuing my run through the Christian Blog Carnival, Laura has a good post Witnessing – Proselytizing – Defending the Faith.

    I think there are two important points to keep in mind:

    • Listening to the other person(s) in order to find out what their interest is. I’ve found that many people are interested in discussing my faith while I’m not trying to convert them.
    • Remembering, as Laura points out, that it’s not our mission field, and it is not up to us to “convert” people in the first place. Much rudeness results from people getting desperate to accomplish conversion. Christians are to be witnesses, not to render verdicts.

    I’d like to tie in a reference to my post Being a Witness without Being a Pest.

  • Free Speech, Gay Rights, and the Bible

    I want to call attention to this post and to the story behind it. An evangelical Christian was arrested in south Wales and charged with using “threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour.”

    Ed Brayton said:

    I am obviously a staunch advocate of gay rights, but some of the people who claim to be on the same side need to get something through their skulls: you do not have a right to never encounter the opposition of disapproval of others.

    Very frequently I have to point to problems like this on the other side, i.e. as a Christian I’m busily telling my fellow-Christians that we need to support free speech for everyone, and freedom of religion for everyone. Christians should, for example, be at the forefront of the battle for freedom of religion for Wiccans in the military. We know from both sides the danger of persecution. We’ve been and still are persecuted in parts of the world. We have been, and still are persecutors. We have every reason to know it’s bad.

    I was glad to see several non-Christian posters who support the freedom of speech of this evangelical Christian. My question is will this story simply make evangelical Christians angry about a “homosexual agenda” or will it alert all of us, whatever our persuasion, to the problems of restricting freedom of speech and of expression? I hope it is the latter. We need to keep speech free, or we may be the next target.

  • Nitpicking Translations

    Centuri0n responded, in a way to my post Conscience of a Christian Publisher. I posted a response once, and unfortunately that response was eaten by the server. I was able to restore everything else, but this I have to rewrite. I’m not trying to repeat the other post precisely, so if you read it, don’t look at this as a duplicate, though I am trying to cover the same ground.

    There are a number of things I could respond to, such as his comments on my use of “conscience,” but I think I’ll skip to what I see as the major problem of logic, and it’s one that is not unique to centuri0n. It’s quite prevalent amongst advocates of literal translations. Consider the following quote:

    My complaint about the TNIV, as you can read for yourself, is that it whitewashes the controversial nature of its methodology. Now, if the Bible is just a “signpost”, my complaint is, of course, nit-picking. What the Bible says isn’t actually of first importance but of far secondary importance

  • Conscience of a Christian Publisher

    A friend tipped me off by e-mail to a post, and I think it is appropriate to respond. The poster, Centurion, expresses his concern about Christian booksellers and publishers, and their choices in terms of what to offer their customers, especially considering that many of them regard their business as a ministry as well.

    I’m a Christian publisher, a very small one, offering 15 titles at this point, some of them my own, and I certainly do have a conscience about what I publish. My conscience, however, seems to tell me something substantially different than Centurion’s.

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  • Religion and Terror, Cause and Effect

    In an article titled The New Naysayers, Newsweek discusses some new books by atheist authors who blame many of the world’s ills on religion. It’s an interesting article, though not much of this material is particularly new. It seems to me that a good deal of writing about history or about the general state of the world is involved with an attempt to blame broad results on some general answer. Christianity destroyed the Roman Empire (it was such a solid structure before Constantine’s conversion), atheism caused communism, and more recently that the theory of evolution has caused just about every evil thing in the world, starting with Nazism.

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  • From Saint to Sinner

    Lingamish comments today on sinners becoming saints and touches on the possibility of saints becoming sinners.

    It’s high drama for a sinner to become a saint (Read St. Augustine’s Confessions) but higher still is the tale of a saint who becomes a sinner. A fictional example from Spanish literature is San Manuel Bueno Martir by Miguel de Unamuno. I read that story in a Spanish Lit class in college and it has haunted me ever since.

    This is a question that haunts many, many people, and my own experience had led me to be very interested in it. I left the church entirely out of seminary, and only returned 12 years after that. I discuss it at some length in my post on the Participatory Bible Study Blog, Hebrews 6:4-6: Can Those who Fall Return?. I link from there to my personal testimony as well. Here, however, I want to discuss point of view in answering this question. See my discussion of Hebrews 6 (linked above) for more scripture on the topic.

    The issue of falling away and returning is a very contentious issue, and I think it is contentious precisely because it cuts very close to the heart. All of us are probably acquainted with people who are terribly fearful that they are not really saved, and that God is going to get them because of some minor failing. Perhaps they will commit the sin of adultery in their heart and then be run over by a bus before having the opportunity to confess it. Living in that type of fear is a terrible thing, and spiritually debilitating. On the other hand we probably also know people who are so sure that they have the inside track to God that they don’t feel any need to seek spiritual or ethical growth. In each case, we may tend to react against unbalanced teaching that led to the problem.

    I believe there are at least three perspectives from which one might answer the question:

    1. Biblical
      I think the Bible is a bit equivocal on this issue. There are plenty of scriptures that support our security with God, but also plenty that warn against overconfidence, or more accurately self-confidence.
    2. Theological
      This one is often the hardest. What precisely is true. Can someone lose their salvation? I recall a class with a Calvinist student. In one discussion I told him that I had serious problems with a God who could predestine some people to eternal damnation. He responded that he didn’t particular like it, but that was what he thought was true. I don’t think the Bible makes it quite that clear.
    3. Pastoral
      The answer from a pastoral perspective will often depend on who’s asking the question. Is this a person who is short on security? Are they concerned that God can’t accept them? One might need to emphasize security. Is this a person who is inclined to carelessness? Perhaps the firmer version of Hebrews 6:4-6 would be more applicable. Of course, a pastor needs to work within what he understands to be the truth as well.

    For me, the answer must come largely from the pastoral perspective, because I think that’s the way the Bible tends to answer the question. Looking at the entire book of Jeremiah we can see how an entire nation, and especially the city of Jerusalem, became very confident that because of God’s promises they did not need to fear destruction. The promises were needed because the people needed to comprehend the value of a stable relationship. The judgment was required because people became so complacent in an assured relationship that they let that relationship die.

    I suspect that God looks more at the pastoral perspective on these issues. For myself, I often reduce this to the following: It’s possible for someone to reject salvation after apparently accepting it, but it is never accidental.

  • Consider Christianity – part 3

    This is the third of my set of comments on Elgin Hushbeck’s “Consider Christianity” series. In the previous two messages I introduced my approach and dealt with Chapter 1. I now move on to Chapter 2.

    Chapter 2 is called “The Bible and Modern Criticism”. Now, Elgin doesn’t like modern criticism very much. To quote him:-

    “Where prophecies and miracles do occur, they must somehow be explained away. This was very clearly stated by the German scholar Frank, when he wrote:- ‘The representation of a course of history is a priori to be regarded as untrue and unhistorical if supernatural factors interpose in it. Everything must be naturalised and likened to the course of natural history’.
    “Conservative scholars have no such limitations. They believe that those who wrote the Bible were inspired by God. Prophecies and miracles are not seen as proof that the Bible cannot be relied upon. Instead they serve to confirm it’s divine origins. It is often the different assumptions which scholars make that lead them to their different conclusions”

    He adds a footnote:-

    “It is important to note that scholars need not assume that the writers of the Bible were inspired by God. A scholar need only leave the question of the supernatural open and examine the evidence for alleged occurrences to see if they happened”.

    Neglecting for a moment that God may well inspire a writer to write something in a historical style without it being intended to be historical, and a wholly uninspired writer might yet faithfully report an historical supernatural event, doesn’t that sound reasonable? It did to me at first reading.

    But it isn’t setting out a level playing field between Christianity and any other historical document. Frank’s statement is not exclusive to Christianity, it is standard historical practice when dealing with any historical document. An a priori assumption can be rebutted – but supernatural events are extraordinary by definition, and extraordinary events require extraordinary evidence. (I’m quite happy to accept Bill’s statement that he walked down to the shops today, but I’d need a lot of convincing if he then claimed he teleported back).

    The Conservative scholar will clearly not think extraordinary evidence necessary. Will the Mainstream or Liberal scholar? Well, perhaps not the extremes of Liberal scholarship, who probably won’t accept even extraordinary evidence (there’s an excluded middle logical fallacy here – there isn’t just Jesus Seminar and Conservative) but certainly a significant swathe of Mainstream.

    I personally criticise Frank’s statement mildly, in that it’s too close to “the supernatural never occurs”, and I criticise some of the Jesus Fellowship scholars on the same basis. But Elgin admits openly that Conservative Scholars “believe the Bible to be inspired by God”. I’ve no problem with them doing that for purposes of theology, but for purposes of Apologetics it’s the “assuming your conclusion” logical fallacy.

    In addition, if you accept that in Christianity, an account of something supernatural is possibly correct (and particularly if you go on to say that if it’s witnessed to and there’s no contradictory evidence it’s true), you have to do the same with accounts of supernatural events linked with any other religion. Of course, historians don’t do this, but I can see the possibility that, to be even handed, we might need to accept that Augustus Caesar was a God – after all, it’s hugely multiply attested by contemporary archaological inscriptions and therefore better attested than anything in the new Testament.

    Movind on to Elgin’s account of the Documentary hypothesis, he struggles hard to demonstrate one very conservative Jewish legend about the composition of Torah, and ignores another Jewish legend which has the Prophet Ezra assembling scholars to collect and edit an oral tradition, which is hardly advancing all the evidence. I note Elgin’s footnote referring to Exodus 24:4 and Deuteronomy 31:9, but the first refers only to such law as had already been expounded in Exodus (and at least one Jewish tradition has it that the later restating after the breaking of the tablets revoked this portion), and the second may well only refer to the succeding passages of Deuteronomy.

    My attitude to his section on Historical Criticism can be summed up by the statement that on the basis he suggests, “Gone With the Wind” should be regarded as authentic history, as it has some authentic historical detail in it.
    Yes, Luke uses a correct term for the then leader of Malta. But then, John gets his Palestinian geography right, and the synoptics broadly don’t.

    For the remainder of the chapter, I think it can be summed up by his section entitled “On shaky ground”. He’s right that it isn’t possible to state that, say, the Q hypothesis or the late dating of the Fourth Gospel are proven. However, he proceeds to imply that in the absence of proof, we should accept a contrary view which is equally shaky as being accurate. There are many views; scholars disagree. Were his apparent objective to reassure Conservative Christians that certain of their positions were rationally compatible with the evidence, to date he’d be doing fairly well. But the title is “Consider Christianity”, and the introduction is aimed at someone who is not already a Conservative Christian believer, and probably not a Christian believer at all.

    Demonstrating that something is possible is not demonstrating that it is correct.

  • Red-Letter Christians

    Matt Friedman has a column on Agape Press, and links to it from his blog. In it, he complains of Christians, in his words members of “the Evangelical left” who call themselves red-letter Christians. The name is derived from the practice of some Bible editions that put the words of Jesus in red.

    To Friedman, the main reason for them to do this is apparently to avoid certain topics that are discussed in more detail in the parts of scripture that are not in red. To quote him:

    One wonders, of course, if the real reason they have decided to use Scripture this way is that Jesus never actually uses the terms “homosexual” and “abortion.” The Red-Letter designation ostensibly frees these passionate lefties from the issues they despise the most and the texts that more directly address them.

    My question is equally direct. Do many conservative Christians (I know that it is not all conservatives) dislike the idea of the red-letter Christians because it emphasizes the texts that “more directly address them?” Is it because they would like to replace “Blessed are the poor in spirit” with “Blessed are the spiritually satisfied,” and “Blessed are those who are persecuted” with “Blessed are those who fight for their own rights while ignoring the rights of others?”

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  • Faith, Medicine, and Choice

    MSNBC.com has an interesting article today on medical practices and faith. The general title belies the content which is almost exclusively about clinics that do not offer birth control, sterilizations, in-vitro fertilization, or abortions.

    According to the article there is a growing trend. The article notes:

    The number of “NFP-only” practices is unknown, but an Ohio-based Web site promoting them has a registry of nearly 500 doctors who have pledged to practice this way. Most are obstetrician-gynecologists and family practitioners.

    Some medical ethicists have a problem with this practice, and the story reports a number of women who have been annoyed when such practices refused to offer certain services. Other ethicists believe that if the advertising is clear, then the practice is acceptable. The story quoted one annoyed patient as follows:

    “It caught me completely off guard,” said Elizabeth Dotts, 25, who had a similar experience in Birmingham. “I felt like he was judging me and putting pressure on me. . . . I am the patient. I am the client. It should have been about me — what I needed. Not what he needed or believed.”

    And here’s where I have a problem. Provided there is no false advertising, and information on the doctor’s practices are available, I think the patient should be responsible for choosing a doctor that is appropriate. I realize here that people often miss notices, not just in the fine print, but even on large signs in the office. They are focused on something else. But I think people who are focused on something else need to take responsibility for what you get. You don’t see the “we don’t do contraception” notice in the office, go to another one.

    Now don’t make any mistake. I personally do not agree with the position that these doctors are taking. I do have a problem with the individual quoted in the story who felt it would be unethical to refer the patient to a physician who would take care of them as they desire. I would also expect ethically that they should inform patients clearly of what their beliefs are, what they will do, and what they won’t, giving the patient an opportunity to choose a different doctor. With all of that, however, I would leave primary responsibility on the patient to make a selection based on their desires and their choices.

    This position stems from my broader position that people should be able to make any business relationship they desire, provided fraud or other deception is not involved, and I believe this should be true even in medical care. The final responsibility for your health is yours, and it is not possible to protect you from all negative experiences with medical practitioners. Plan on problems. Investigate your health care provider. Make an informed choice. Even if you do not encounter a doctor whose faith stance causes him to refuse you the kind of treatment you want, let me assure you that you will encounter physicians out there whose care you should avoid.

    Doctors should inform, but to make that work, patients should demand the information and refuse to settle for less. If, in the end, that means you change doctors, then it’s time for a change.