Threads from Henry's Web

Category: Bible Translation

  • Interesting NRSV-ESV Gender Usage

    The text is Psalm 127:3 –

    Sons are indeed a heritage from the Lord, the fruit of the womb a reward.  (NRSV)

    Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord, the fruit of the womb a reward. (ESV)

    The KJV also reads “children.”  I’m suspecting that the author of this Psalm was indeed talking about sons, because of the culture in which he wrote.  At the same time it’s interesting that NRSV switched to “sons” against most of the English versions, while the ESV stuck with “children.”

    Perhaps not too terribly significant, but interesting.

  • Retraction on NIV2011 Update

    With an tip of the hat to Peter Kirk, I withdraw objections to the NIV2011 update project.  Peter in turn links to this NIV 2011 FAQ.

    My objection to the update hinged on the idea that the TNIV was being bypassed in favor of going back to the 1984 NIV.  I saw (and still see) no reason why there needed to be a parallel update when the TNIV does such an excellent job.  With the affirmation (under Q27) that the TNIV text is not to be abandoned, my objection is no longer valid.

    I still believe that the church as a whole puts too much into American resources and too little overseas, but Biblica and the CBT are already doing what I would call for in providing for translation for other languages (see Q17).

    Thanks to Peter Kirk for his diligent work in keeping some of us slower folks up on the facts of this case.

  • Dynamic and Cognitive Equivalence

    Paul Helm of Helm’s Deep tries to take a philosophers approach to a discussion of dynamic equivalence in translation, and does not do a good job.

    My primary complaint is that, in apparently trying to clarify definitions of different translation procedures he fails to define the term he uses most, cognitive equivalence, while seeming to oppose a very vague notion of dynamic equivalence in translation.  He then proceeds to use the term “paraphrase” in an undefined manner as well.

    He points out, for example, that the term “dynamic equivalence” is somewhat metaphorical, because it comes from the world of physical mechanics.  Then he proceeds to misapply the metaphor and claim that it is incoherent.  Perhaps it is incoherent in the way he uses it, but I have yet to encounter an actual Bible translator who uses it in that fashion.

    For example, he states:

    … And what I claim is that there is no such thing as ‘dynamic equivalence’ achievable other than cognitive equivalence, and certainly it is not achievable through paraphrase, however ingenious and skilled the paraphraser may be.

    But what can the word “paraphrase” mean in this case?  Does it mean reordering the English words one uses after one constructs a word by word glossing of the text, in the way one might do in a first year Greek or Hebrew class?  That would be paraphrasing within one language.  One has to guess here, and perhaps the most coherent guess is that he means deviating from the word order of the original in some way, though that hardly makes sense in the context of translating.

    He blames this on the difference between a precisely measurable physical effect and the impact of words or phrases on the human mind:

    … The impacton the human mind of single words, phrases, and complete sentences, is obviously not physically mechanical, but it comes through the meaning or the perceived meaning, of the words. And so we should stick to the original words, translating or transliterating them as best we can.

    My question here is just which translator fails to note this difference between a physical activity and the way in which meaning works?  At the same time I must note that it is not necessarily the words themselves that produce “the meaning or the perceived meaning.”  In fact, from one language to another the very definition of the word “word” can become somewhat confusing.

    When translated word by word, a sentence might have a completely different meaning even when one has gotten some sort of equivalence for each individual word.  That very lack of precision which Helm claims prevents dynamic equivalent translation bedevils literal translation.  Two words in two different contexts are rarely, if ever, cognitively equivalent.  (For “cognitive” I’m using definition #2 from Dictionary.com.)  But much less are they dynamically equivalent.

    Take, for example, the controversial statement made by Jesus to his mother in John 2:4 — loosely transliterated ti emoi kai soi.  I could translate this word for word as “what to me and to you” but even then would I be satisfying Dr. Helm’s goal?  After all, I have already departed from word-for-word translation.

    You may say that I’m using a reductio ad absurdam, but I want to use that as a challenge to advocates of strictly literal translation to discover just where the boundary is.  Just where does literal translation become absurd?  My own boundary would be when the target audience of the translation finds it excessively difficult to discover the meaning.  I would leave out the word “excessively” except that I wish to leave room for the translation of concepts that are difficult.

    But in John 2:4 we have an idiom which was not intended to be obscure to Jesus’ audience, nor was it intended as obscure to John’s audience.  So in what way is it appropriate to leave it obscure to a modern audience?

    Yet in an earlier paragraph Dr. Helm says:

    … If the result of translation which aims at keeping to the original as faithfully as can be results in some puzzlement and ignorance when the text is read, so be it. …

    It seems to me that Dr. Helm views cognitive equivalence as possible, and then having made that assumption discovers that dynamic equivalence is more difficult and thus shouldn’t be attempted.  In his further explanation of that approach it appears to me that he is looking for single word equivalences in most cases, thus he says:

    … What if there’s no word for ‘righteousness’ or ‘atonement’ or ‘resurrection’? Maybe the best translation strategy in such circumstances is the transliteration of the word with the addition of a marginal note, which is the practice of the Study Bibles of today, and of the Geneva Bible of the Puritans.

    But on what basis does he believe cognitive equivalence requires one word to fill in for certain Greek or Hebrew words, such as those that might be translated ‘righteousness’ or ‘atonement’ or ‘resurrection.’  One senses that perhaps he has not struggled with the number of different words in the source languages that might be translated with those terms, and the number of other words with which they must be translated.  On what basis one cognitive equivalence require a one to one correspondence?  But unless I read him wrong, to write a multiple-word explanation of “righteousness” in a translation would automatically be out of bounds.

    I would suggest instead that if I use “being in a right relationship with God” for “righteousness” in some contexts, I could properly be criticized for using an incorrect phrase as equivalent, but not for using a phrase rather than a word.  And that would appear to be some “paraphrasing.”  As one who reads the text in its original languages, I sense this sort of “paraphrasing,” if it can be called that, as soon as translation begins.  A translator uses different words by virtue of the fact that he renders his translation in a different language.

    But my greater concern here is with the separation of cognitive equivalence from other forms of equivalence.  Separating the intellectual meaning from emotional and volitional is, in my view, not only impossible, but undesirable.  I like to tell my Bible study classes that we come to the Bible looking for information while God comes to the Bible looking for conversation.  That generalization is untrue, just like every other generalization, including this one!  But it does point to some truth.

    The very nature of the literature itself belies the notion that cognitive equivalence is adequate.  Is cognitive equivalence even of any value in poetry?  How much of the Biblical text is not intended to evoke something at the volitional level?

    Dr. Helm says near the beginning of his piece that he is avoiding the theological questions.  But those questions that must be answered if one is to develop a theory of how one translates “God’s word.”  If it is, in fact, the word of God, theology must be involved somewhere.

    I do not intend here a defense of all translations that are labeled “dynamic equivalent” nor necessarily of the term itself, though I do like it.  (‘Functional equivalence’ is preferred by many translators.)  There are some “dynamic” translations that are simply “dynamically inaccurate.”  Dynamic equivalence is not about allowing oneself to say whatever one wants.  Rather, it is about looking at the text as more than a sequence of words and trying to communicate the meaning of the text as accurately as possible to the target audience.

    There are certainly cases in which one must leave the readers to go immerse themselves in the concepts of the Bible–they are different.  But there are many cases when such an approach is simply a theological elitism that assumes that because a particular term has been used once, it must be used for all time.  Let the ignorant beware!

  • New Revision of NIV Announced

    Everybody is writing about this so I might as well get on the bandwagon.  I’ll credit the hat tip to Better Bibles Blog.  I’m pretty sure that’s where I read about it first.  I’ll let you go there for the details.

    To be honest, though I’m obviously pretty intensively interested in Bible translation, having written a book, and created a web site on the subject, I’m getting a bit weary of new translation projects.  Zondervan has already done a rather poor job of supporting and marketing the TNIV, so what’s to say that this new version is going to do that much better?

    More importantly, though I’m aware there are flaws in all English translations, that’s simply a symptom of the fact that there are, and always will be, flaws in any translation.  I don’t see anything added to the process that will actually make more people satisfied with translations.  Any time a committee does the work, individuals such as myself will find something to complain about.

    It seems to me that there is a bit of excess in English Bible translation and marketing.  I don’t want to target any translation committee for being the “excess,” but my question is how much better things will get with each new translation.

    If the NIV revisers use gender neutral phrasing in their revision, they will become the target of the same folks who criticized the TNIV.  If they don’t, the audience for which the TNIV was intended are unlikely to appreciate the new version.

    So, folks, just how much further along will we be in Biblical scholarship when this new version is published?  How much will the kingdom be advanced?

    I think I need to add here a quote from Eddie Arthur on Kouya Chronicles:

    So English, a language which already has more scholarly translations of the Bible than you can shake a stick at, is to get yet another translation. No doubt the publishers will also make a small fortune.

    Meanwhile, there are still two thousand languages spoken by two hundred million people without a word of Scripture. Our priorities are all messed up!

    I love Bible editions.  I have a fair collection of them.  But I am wondering more and more whether some portion of our Bible translation and marketing process is a symptom of some of the things that are wrong with the western church.

  • MyBibleVersion.com Update

    It has been some time since I discussed the MyBibleVersion.com site, and indeed it has been some time since I updated it.

    Today I added Google FriendConnect and the ability to comment.  Comments are active on the index page and on each of the Bible version detail pages.

    I believe this will give me the facility to have decently secure login, which is a prerequisite for my planned personalization.  If I am successful in implementing this, each user will be able to enter values for the various translation attributes and compare versions using the same system I do.

    Don’t hold your breath–this has to be done in my spare time.

    In addition, I plan to add the ISV within the next few days.  I delayed doing the ISV because the Old Testament was scheduled to appear.  At this point I have enough material to work with.

  • Yet Again Comments on my KJV Video

    I’m not going to embed it again, but there were a couple of recent comments on my video Why I Hate the KJV.

    I can’t believe you hate the KJV. Ridiculous. Not fond of, understandable, but regardless of your use of it, the KJV is a masterpiece.

    This sort of comment was only to be expected, considering the provocative title I used, but at the same time it demonstrates that the commenter didn’t actually watch the video.  In fact, the video is a response to those who ask me “Why do you hate the KJV?” as I state right at the beginning.

    Indeed the KJV is a masterpiece, but it’s a masterpiece of translation with tremendous literary qualities, and should be treated as such.

    But the second comment is one of those moderate sounding ones that I think is somewhat dangerous, and it was the reason I decided to respond:

    I often use the lesser modern versions when trying to get various facets of a text or passage. Admittedly they can be of some use though they need to be used advisedly as if they are not potentially they can do more harm than good!!

    (You can find both of these comments and many more at the video page to which I link above.)

    Of course one must be careful with modern translations.  One must be careful with any translation precisely because it is a translation and something is lost no matter how well the job is done.  That is why I recommend using multiple translations if you cannot learn the source languages.

    But that is not a characteristic just of modern translations; it is a characteristic of all translations, including the KJV.  A translation does not become more authoritative than the source text.

    And that is the danger here–that someone will take the KJV as the reliable source against which modern translations will be tested.  It too is a translation with all of the failings that entails.  It’s a wonderfully literary translation, perhaps the single greatest accomplishment in Bible translation (though I can think of some good competitors) but it doesn’t replace the texts from which it was translated.

  • Word Study Reprise

    It’s very easy to go astray with word studies when one doesn’t know the languages in question.  Since I had a recent request for this material, I want to provide the links to my previous series (from early 2007) on word studies, dangers, and methods.

    1. Word Study Dangers: Overview
    2. Word Study Dangers: The Process
    3. Word Study Dangers: Glosses and Definitions
    4. Word Study Dangers: Your Dependence on Scholars
    5. From Word to Study
    6. A Simple and Legitimate Use for a Concordance Indexed to the Biblical Languages (This post is much later, but related)

    I hope these posts are helpful to those who are trying to get a peak at the Biblical languages.  Even better, set out to learn them!

  • A Look at Reader’s Version of Greek and Hebrew Bible

    A few days ago I found the Reader’s Version of Greek and Hebrew Bible (HT: Tim Ricchuitti), and while I think it is a good tool, I greet such tools with mixed emotions and I would like to point out some excellent uses for it, as well as some not-so-excellent uses.

    Much too often students see learning Greek and Hebrew (or any other language) as ending when one can use the proper reference tools to manage to gloss a text in the source languages.  I recognize that for many, that is really as far as you’re going to go.  That level of ability will allow you to read commentaries based on the source texts more effectively and to understand discussions of various translation and exegetical issues better.  It does not, however, constitute understanding the language in question.

    Such understanding comes through a combination of studying the various aspects (morphology, grammar, syntax, and so forth, not to exclude rhetorical issues), and becoming comfortable reading the text–lots of text.  (Speaking and hearing are also very valuable wherever possible.)  To use myself as an example, I can read most Biblical texts without reference works at hand.  Normally I don’t do so–I tend to check and recheck options, because I may be simply filling in a gloss from memory rather than understanding the word or expression.  By contrast, I “read” Syriac like many folks with a couple years of Greek read Greek–with all references open and painstaking work.  I’m not sorry I spent the time getting my Syriac to this point.  It allows me to check textual references, for example, but I would not really call it “reading.”

    One of my Greek teachers, with whom I spent a couple of pleasant years reading New Testament epistles, was Dr. Sakae Kubo, who also edited the Reader’s Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament.  Dr. Kubo would emphasize to us what we should and should not do with this tool.  Its purpose was to allow us to read larger quantities of Greek, not to substitute for learning vocabulary.  And believe me, Dr. Kubo could make you wish you’d memorized your vocabulary should you choose the path of laziness!  (There is now a New Reader’s Lexicon.)

    This online tool extends the vocabulary concept to grammar, giving a reader the opportunity to either check his basic knowledge of morphology or to cheat himself of the value of truly becoming proficient.  Knowing the basics of a languages morphology is even more important, in a sense, than simply knowing vocabulary, because it impacts how you understand every word.  So again, this morphology (or the morphology you find in your Logos or other Bible study software) is again a mixed blessing.  It can either help you become more proficient or it can cripple you and become a crutch.

    The difference will be a matter of discipline.  Do you become dependent? Do you force yourself to actually learn once you correct yourself according to such a tool?  Only you can make sure you get the right things from a tool such as this.

    There are several different modes of reading that I believe are of value to a student of Biblical languages, or of any language you are trying to learn to read:

    1.  Rapid reading.  This is important for true vocabulary building as well as for building your proficiency.  It allows you to see how words relate to one another and how ideas are expressed in a particular language.  The person who works his way through a passage looking up one word at a time and consulting charts for morphology will miss this level.  Further, I believe vocabulary will always remain difficult to memorize if one has never seen it in context.  I combined extended reading in Hebrew with memorization of all words that occurred more than 5 times in the Hebrew Bible.  I don’t regret one moment spent on either activity.  Indeed there are times when I wish I’d pushed it further when I was younger!

    2.  Study. In this case, rather than considering a passage read because you think you have basically “got it” you dig in study details and recheck things that you think you might know.  I know that even after writing a study guide to the book of Hebrews, for example, I still like to read a passage with all references handy.  You never know when someone else’s passing comment will give you a new insight.  This is what you practice in the early stages of Greek class.  Hopefully you will become much more effective at it over time.

    3.  Memorization. I’ve seen only a few people recommend this.  I suspect more would like to, but they know people react negatively to memorization, especially in a foreign language.  My first and second year Greek teacher at Walla Walla College (now university), Lucille Knapp, required a few verses of memorization of all students.  You should have heard the complaints!  But it was a tremendous blessing.  I’ve continued the practice, though there are only a few passages that are at the top of my memory.  I tend to go to memorizing something new rather than reviewing the old.  But even so, reviewing old passages will bring them back pretty quickly.  In the meantime, I find that vocabulary items and phraseology in those passages come to mind as I read elsewhere, even after I’m pretty sure I couldn’t simply recite the entire passage.

    As I said earlier, the key here is to use tools such as this to drive your learning rather than to substitute for it.  Unfortunately, having both taught Greek and Hebrew (infrequently) and tutored students, I have found that many don’t have that discipline.  My warning here is that if you don’t, you’ll make this into a crutch.

  • Abundance of English Translations but …

    … others not so much.

    On his blog today, Eddie Arthur laments the lack of comment in the blogosphere about the need for Bible translation for language groups that do not have any portion of scripture translated. While many of us discuss with some vigor the merits of various approaches to translation and of renderings of specific verses, some people have no translation at all.

    Since I am certainly guilty of extensive work comparing one English translation to another, I feel a bit like I’m in the bullseye of Eddie’s rant, as he calls it. So first let me tell you why I talk a lot about English Bibles, and why I will probably continue to do so, despite the fact that I think Eddie is mostly right. Then I’ll make a suggestion to help adjust our priorities a bit.

    In spite of the number of Bibles that we have in the English speaking world, knowledge of the Bible amongst the general population and even church membership seems to be diminishing. I’m not going to spend time backing that up right now; numerous studies and my own personal experience suggest it. If you disagree, I’d be interested in hearing from you.

    My personal mission is not the production of Bible translations. I believe I’m called to get Christians more and more involved in Bible study. The abundance of Bible translations is one area in which our blessing can also be a curse. We have so much material, so many options, yet we don’t actually make use of what we have.

    For many people, the many Bible versions is an impediment rather than a help. They wonder how to choose a translation, and whether they can trust the text of the one they choose. I have often told classes that they can go to a Christian book store, enter the Bible section, and select a Bible blindfolded, and it will be usable.

    Now I don’t prefer that they do that. Given the number of English Bibles available, I prefer that they find a Bible translation that makes it most likely that they will read and understand. This is one reason I’m turned off by detailed theological criticism of various translations. I like the CEV, for example, yet in reading it for my own use, I’ve found plenty of places where I think the translation is less than the best. But there are two things to note here—this is my personal opinion. It doesn’t mean that the translators were wrong; it simply means I disagree with them. But even more importantly, I’m generally arguing minor points of theology that can be settled effectively by reading in context, while there are millions of Christians who would be uncertain how to find that particular book of the Bible, were they called upon to do so in a Bible study.

    Given this, I’m going to continue to try to provide information that helps people choose a Bible that works for them. I’ve found that to be helpful in getting people to go deeper into Bible study.

    But that plays right back into Eddie’s point. While I feel my mission is to my fellow mainline Christians here in America, his mission is translating the Bible into these other languages. While the American reader has a problem because he sees so many Bibles and doesn’t know which one to follow, there are millions of people who will have to use a Bible in some other language if they want one at all.

    I think that if even a small portion of the money used to produce new Bible translations in English were instead donated to groups working in other languages, it would be a tremendous blessing both to those who give and to those who receive.

    I’ve noticed that one of the best ways to get American Christians involved in Bible study and in various spiritual disciplines is to get them involved in service to folks who are less well off, whether those people are overseas or just down the street. So I’m going to combine this with Eddie’s suggestion that we add a note about those with no translation at all to our comparison’s of English translations.

    How about this? Whether we like it or not, economics is a powerful motivator. When you go out to buy that new English Bible, try donating an amount equal to what you paid for it to an organization like Wycliffe Bible Translators. The extra expense might make you value your new purchase even more!

  • Psalm 50:3 in The Message

    One of my criticisms of The Message is that it tends to blunt the force of many scriptures, making them more palatable than they are.  Now don’t get the idea that I’m a critic of The Message in general.  In fact, I think it makes a great contribution to the literature available for rapid reading and overview.  Many of its expressions are quite beautiful.

    As one might expect, some of those are beautiful–and inaccurate.

    Psalm 50:3 is one such case.  Here it is from The Message:

    Our God makes his entrance, he’s not shy in his coming. Starbursts of fireworks precede him.

    That’s nice, cool, and contemporary.  But is it accurate?  In this case, I think, far from it.  I could debate whether “not being shy” adequatey expresses what the Psalmist means when he says God will not be silent.  But that would be a longer post.

    Let’s just compare to the NRSV:

    Our God comes and does not keep silence, before him is a devouring fire, and a mighty tempest all around him.

    My question is whether “starbursts of fireworks” adequately conveys the “devouring fire” thing.  I don’t think it does.  The idea of fireworks today conveys celebration, joy, excitement, and beauty.  In this case, I think the fire says something both about God’s power and about what he is going to do with it.

    I think this one could be translated in contemporary language but more accurately.  Perhaps it would be less beautiful, but more accurate.

    Take the CEV for example:

    Our God approaches, but not silently; a flaming fire comes first, and a storm surrounds him.

    It lacks some of the zing, but it’s clear and natural contemporary English.  And it’s fairly accurate.