Threads from Henry's Web

Category: Creation and Evolution

  • Panic in the Temple of Darwin?

    A friend forwarded a link to an article on Dr. Albert Mohler’s blog titled Two Irreconcilable Worldviews. I would note, incidentally, that Dr. Mohler’s blog doesn’t allow commenting, a practice I deplore. Nonetheless, in his position I imagine it is to be expected.

    There are so many things I could comment on in this post. The first is the use of the term “worldview.” “Worldview” has become a shorthand way of referring to one’s complete view of life, the universe, and everything. It is an unnuanced approach to information. There are some appropriate and valuable uses of it, but in general I think it merely simplifies something that is complex, and thus misrepresents it. As a moderate, I tend not to like large packages. I’d prefer to pick my own viewpoints, thank you!

    Now if Dr. Mohler said merely that evolution was irreconcilable with Southern Baptist theology, I would have little problem. The Southern Baptist convention has done a good job of pushing moderates and liberals to go elsewhere, and thus it is very likely that evolution cannot be reconciled with what is left, though there are some who would differ. And it’s their denomination, not mine, so I shouldn’t try to tell them who is in and who is out.

    But Dr. Mohler feels free to make that same sort of comment with regard to mainline Christians. Now I fit into the “mainline protestant” category fairly well. I also have to confess that there is a good deal of confusion amongst mainliners with regard to just what we believe. At least there’s confusion amongst the few who think about it. I was shocked when I joined a United Methodist congregation just how few even knew what the doctrinal stands of their denomination actually were. I was asked by my pastor after I had been Methodist for only a year, to teach a class on the doctrine of Christian perfection. Now this doctrine is in the Methodist Book of Discipline. I expected people to argue about it or at least to have questions. On the first day of the class, however, I found that only the pastor and I were aware that there actually was such a thing.

    When you go further afield into things that are only in resolutions or in general consensus of opinion, it’s not surprising that people truly don’t go deep into the theological implications of what they believe. But many mainline theologians have done so, and they have found that their faith and the theory of evolution are not irreconcilable at all. I would urge mainliners to actually read up on some of the theology. There’s John Haught’s God After Darwin, Howard J. Van Till’s The Fourth Day, the evangelical Dr. Richard Colling’s Random Designer, on which I blogged here some time ago. From a scientists perspective, yet still theologically aware, we have Dr. Kenneth Miller’s Finding Darwin’s God. And I’ve only touched the surface. I’m sure someone will mention a really good book in the comments and I’ll think: “I should have thought of that!”

    But the part that struck me the most about this blog is the ending:

    Tellingly, Michael Zimmerman sees the public status of evolutionary theory endangered by the fact that so many Christians resist the theory. As he admits, “I believe that most people, if forced to choose between religion and evolution, will select religion.” He is right, of course — and that is why there is such panic in the temple of Darwin.

    There are so many problems with this. First, we have the inability of a religious leader to see the difference between a scientific theory and a religious institution such as a denomination. “Panic in the temple” is when a bunch of United Methodists get around and start talking membership loss statistics. The concern is for our community and how it functions and grows. A scientific theory, on the other hand, is and must be constantly under examination. Every time a scientists in a relevant field collects experimental data, whether he is digging up fossils, or culturing bacteria in the lab, the theory of evolution is there to be challenged. The fact that it keeps coming back confirmed, merely tells us how valuable it is. But note at the same time that it has been modified any number of times to meet new challenges. Unlike a denomination, however, all the scientists would remain scientists were the current theory of evolution overturned. They would merely have to adjust their theoretical framework. Yes, it would take a long time. It should take a long time for such a shift.

    Second, is there any panic involved? In the United States there is certainly a high level of concern. I’m highly concerned when I see that a narrow majority of the people in my state, 45%-43% (see poll) reject a thoroughly confirmed scientific theory, and that quite a number of those who accept it think it’s not all that well confirmed. Why is this? Would I be disturbed because a favorite theory of mine is not accepted? (Remember that I have been fascinated by the debate over creation and evolution since I was a child, even though I accepted young earth creation until I was in college.) Actually it concerns me only because we need science to solve many of our technical problems.

    So when Dr. Mohler seems to suggest that it’s a good thing when people choose religion over science, I have to question his good judgment. It sounds to me much like a carpenter rejecting his hammer in favor of his saw.

    Consider global warming. My faith and ethics tell me that while I put people first, people need a world in which to live, so I must be careful. Religion cannot tell me whether we are suffering from global warming or cooling, or how much of that effect is due to man-made emissions, or what is the best strategy to deal with whatever it is. Only science can do that.

    Consider biotechnology. Science can discover how to create various genetically engineered products, and what they might be useful for. I go to my faith to see just how I should apply these things to my real world. (I do not mean here to put down those who would prefer a humanist ethics to faith. I’m speaking for myself.)

    And biotechnology is closely tied to evolutionary theory. If we want to have a solid idea of what is going on in these areas, we will have to understand evolutionary theory. Our children will have to understand it. Despite desperate efforts to claim otherwise, evolutionary theory is foundational in biology, with an impact that extends into our everyday lives through advances in medicine. If we want to understand and continue to advance in medicine, we will need to understand this.

    There is indeed cause for concern amongst those who support science. Science education has lagged for two long in this country. It is that weakness in scientific education that has permitted the current situation to exist.

    But I think there is, perhaps, more of a panic in the halls of religion. As a Christian this concerns me substantially. More and more young people are turning away from the church and from traditional religion. There is a certain panic amongst religious leaders as they see this happening. They are afraid that morality will slip away at the same time.

    There is a time to take a moral stand, but when you do so, you have to do so on the right side. To take a stand against the theory of evolution right now as a moral issue is to take a stand on the wrong side of history. Religion can be severely impaired should we choose at this moment to try to force people either to avoid education in this topic, or to ignore the evidence in front of them. I believe that evidence is strong, and that to force this issue over the next decade or so will result in more and more brilliant young people leaving the church. They will do so not because they cannot accept Christian morality. In fact, many of them will have firmer moral principles than us older folks. They will do so because they will refuse to regard it as right to ignore clear and overwhelming evidence.

    I hope that Dr. Mohler’s choice is not the one presented, because I think if we present this as two worldviews, then no matter which one chooses he or she will be terribly impoverished. My firm choice is both.

  • Science Education Problem for Florida

    In today’s News Roundup from the Florida Citizens for Science blog, there is reference to a poll taken in Florida. This poll suggests that 50% of Floridians would like to see only faith-based views of origins taught in public schools.

    What is most interesting to me in the poll, however, is how it shows that increased education makes acceptance of evolution more likely. In fact, if you went outside the boundaries of the poll, you’d find that the more evolution is involved in someone’s professional or academic specialty, the more likely they are to accept the theory of evolution.

    Now conspiracy theorists suggest brainwashing. I’m sure scientists are subject to social pressure, but often less so than anyone else. In science, the opportunity to overturn a dominant theory is the road to success. People speaking against the science standards here in Florida talk about the series of dominant theories that have been overturned (see commentary at Dispatches). What these comments seem to miss is the fact that it is scientists engaging in science who have overturned those theories, and that the culture of science favors overturning.

    In addition, these same folks miss the Sunday School and church brainwashing that is possible on the other side. I know that I heard nothing until I was well into college other than young earth creationism. While I encountered evolution in a high school biology text, I was immediately also introduced to “the truth” in other materials. But all that supposed brainwashing doesn’t take. I would certainly be willing to discount the church based brainwashing if the creationist crowd will back off the the science education brainwashing.

    Those who oppose evolution have a fully valid way to attack it–get out there and do the science. Instead we have PR statements, popular books, and political maneuvering to get content that does not pass muster as science including in science courses. Let creationists do the hard work of demonstrating their view. Right now it’s not happening, and thus it is appropriate that such views are shut out of the science classroom. Please note that I say “shut out of the science classroom” and not out of public discourse or scientific discourse. Anyone should be able to engage in public discourse–and creationists are doing so. Anyone can attempt to overturn a scientific theory, but they need to present it to scientists first, not to school children.

    There are those who will argue that the majority of parents should be able to set the public school curriculum. I disagree. I think we would be appalled should the majority of the public be permitted to set curriculum in medicine or health, and even in various shop classes. What the general public knows about auto mechanics, for example, is somewhat questionable. But nobody believes they should write curriculum unless they are fully acquainted with the field. In the area of biological sciences, parents are in effect trying to write curriculum, or to get their state representatives to do so, without any qualification.

    I would hold that parents should have the ultimate control, in the form of home schooling or the use of private schools. Public school curriculum should be written by the consensus of those qualified in the field, something that has already happened with the Florida science standards. The Board of Education should approve the standards as written.

  • Interesting Florida County Statistics

    I have been neglecting to post much on the Florida science standards issue lately. One interesting study looks at the FCAT scores for students in counties supporting and opposing the standards. You can find the article here. Be sure to keep up with the action via the Florida Citizens for Science Blog.

    Speaking of Florida Citizens for Science, I received an e-mail today which I will answer in more detail later, but which quoted the FLCFS site (Word .doc file):

    . . . The supernatural cannot be measured or tested and so is not included in any science course. Additionally, there are many people with sincere religious belief who accept the theory of evolution. It needs to be made clear here that no student is asked to “believe” evolution. Rather, evolution is to be “understood” in the same way that the heliocentric solar system is understood.

    This e-mailer then says: “A person of no faith surely posed the remark that the supernatural cannot be measured.” That’s astonishing, and shows a complete lack of understanding of theology, not to mention simply the meaning of words. If my correspondent can measure the supernatural he’s a bigger man than I am!

  • Am I a Darwinian?

    I spent Saturday, February 9, traveling to/from or in Tallahassee. I was there to attend the annual meeting of Florida Citizens for Science, and also to take in some Darwin Day speakers at the FSU Medical School. I was able to work in Dr. Harry Kroto and Dr. Eugenie Scott (National Center for Science Education), and also part of the final panel that include Dr. Michael Ruse amongst others.

    There is a problem with these meetings in that we gather together people who already agree that the theory of evolution is sound science and we are encouraged by those supporting it and alarmed by the number of folks in this country who oppose it. Often little is accomplished in convincing anyone who wasn’t convinced already. But it’s really a very small problem. There is a place for educating and encouraging the choir, and those of us who were there learned some things about communicating evolution. I would say that the very best way to build support for the theory of evolution, and thus also sound science generally, is to provide better science education.

    Why do I think supporting the theory of evolution in particular encourages sound science? In order to truly do science one must be willing to follow the evidence where it leads. Evolution is the main point on which large numbers don’t want to do that. As long as we say we can ignore the facts discovered by science, we are inevitably weakened.

    There was one discussion that interested me especially because of my linguistic background. Dr. Scott made the comment that we should not accept the title “Darwinist” because that title is applied to us by creationists as an epithet. Physicists are not Kelvinists, for example. (Dr. Scott provided a considerable list.) I can see her point on this, because the term “Darwinist” has been poisoned so much by the debate. Dr. Michael Ruse objected on this one point and suggested rather than he didn’t mind being called a “Darwinian.”

    I’m kind of torn on the issue. I don’t like being called an “evolutionist.” It’s not my religion or my political “ism.” It’s just a well-established scientific theory that I accept. It shouldn’t be regarded with surprise that I accept it; the reverse should be true. Why would one not accept a theory with such solid support? But at the same time I dislike the misuse of Charles Darwin’s name. Evolution today is not limited to what he discovered, but at the same time he was both a man of his age, and thus not perfect, while at the same time he was a wonderful example of a scientist, and a scientific thinker. He was able to step beyond the paradigms of his age and provide a whole new foundation for understanding the whole science of biology. In that sense, I would proud–but unqualified–to be called a Darwinian.

    The bottom line, I suspect, is that I can do very little about what people choose to call me or anyone else. I will likely be a “theistic evolutionist” for the indefinite future, even though I object to the “ist” on evolutionist and the “theistic” part of the title. I both believe in God and I accept the theory of evolution. My theism does not modify the data of the theory of evolution. Yet the title has become accepted and does identify a somewhat coherent group of people.

    Perhaps we should take on the name “Darwinian” and try to rescue the reputation of the fine scientist form which it is derived. The fact that this must be done is a sorry comment on our culture.

  • Not Doing Evolution Sunday

    Well, actually I am. Just not officially. First let me note that I was reminded that I needed to say something about this by a comment from Laura, who also provided this link to further information about the weekend.

    First, let me tell you what I am doing for evolution Sunday or Darwin Day. I’m headed to Tallahassee to attend Darwin Day activities that will be held at the medical school there. I will also attend the annual meeting of Florida Citizens for Science, of which I’m a board member. I commend a strong commitment to and involvement in defending evolutionary science, and public school science standards. I believe that public school science standards must teach solid, consensus science, and the theory of evolution is foundational in the biological sciences.

    Second, let me commend those churches and religious organizations that are commemorating evolution Sunday. If this works well in your context this is great. I’ll discuss a bit below about what I believe “works well” and why.

    Finally, let me tell you why I and the non-profit religious education organization I lead are not doing anything specific on Evolution Sunday. I believe the theory of evolution, and only the theory of evolution should be taught in public school because it is consensus science. There is no substantial scientific controversy about it in the community of scientists in the relevant fields. The amount of noise generated on the issue does not relate to any scientific controversy but rather to religious, philosophical, and social controversies.

    And that is the key point for me. While I do not believe the scientific controversy is significant or legitimate at the moment, the religious controversy is very legitimate. It is much more widespread, and has much further to go before there is any consensus, if there ever will be. One of my strongest objections to teaching any version of creationism, including intelligent design, in public schools, is because I do not trust the state and state employed science teachers to teach religious ideas in a balanced manner. It’s not their training, and it’s well-nigh impossible to do in any case. Besides the church-state issues, which I take seriously, you could destroy a semester of science class just running through the number of different views and how they would step on one another.

    The proper place to do this, I believe, is in the home and in the church. (I will note in passing that while I am a strong supporter of public education, and my children attended public schools, I am not opposed to home schooling and believe it should be an option available to parents.) But whether you are homeschooling or not, if you are a parent you need to be paying attention to these issues and providing your children with information and reading material, and then discussing these issues with them. Sunday School classes need to undertake such discussions openly.

    Thus I would call for churches to use the same weekend to discuss religion and science from whatever perspective you choose. My preference for churches is that how one integrates one’s beliefs with science be open. A church that can allow everyone from theistic evolutionists to young earth creationists to share fellowship would be a wonderful thing. I once taught a class in Genesis to a small group, in which the lady who always took the seat to my right was a theistic evolutionist of vigorous views, while the one to my left was a young earth creationist. We all remained friends as well.

    I also know many pastors who have no problem with theistic evolution, but who simply don’t want to go there. If your church holds an explicit doctrinal position against theistic evolution, then perhaps you ought to search for some other church. But if your church does not, perhaps you ought to express the range of positions that are acceptable under your doctrinal standards, and give church members the freedom to express and discuss their beliefs.

    I think Evolution Sunday is effective in a church in which evolution would be the default position of the membership. Bringing that out into the open is good. It is also good to discuss and learn more about it. But plan also to find out how your neighbors think. For example, many Christians I know who accept evolution think the opposition largely consists of young earth creationists. That is not the case. In a church where more views are likely to be represented, I think this Sunday (or one could choose any of a number of other Sundays) can be dedicated to the topic without telling people the conclusion.

    Above all, I would hope this would be a time of some reconciliation in churches. I know I express myself forcefully and regularly on this topic. But I also have said repeatedly that I have no difficulty with fellowship in church with those of opposing views. It would just be nice to know that they could accept me on the same basis. And I have no problem with them also forcefully expecting their views, providing again there is that caveat about fellowship.

    Whatever you do or don’t do, enjoy the weekend!

  • Florida Science Standards Petition Comments

    Wesley Elsberry has posted his comment on the petition for the Florida science standards at The Panda’s Thumb. If you haven’t signed, consider signing and commenting.

  • Is This Pastor Going to Hell?

    According to an e-mail received by the Rev. John Shuck, he is. And what is the great sin for which he may already be damned? He has signed the Open Letter Concerning Religion and Science. Thus, according to the letter, he is teaching a “damning doctrine,” and may actually be reprobate. On the off-chance he’s not, the writer does pray that God will grant him repentance.

    Now I have to just take a short side trip through the joys of soteriology, particularly views of the atonement and justification. Apparently, according to some, while you are justified by faith, apart from works, and you cannot earn your salvation through any good works, you can quite easily be damned by misunderstanding obscure points of doctrine. Apparently God’s grace is sufficient to cover murder, for example, but balks at failure to comprehend the true nature of the fall. This “salvation by correct doctrine” seems to me to me a new and damnable (gotta love that word!) form of salvation by works, only now the works are intellectual rather than spiritual. Pity the poor person who simply can’t work his mind around the precise doctrinal definitions required before one can receive God’s grace.

    In any case, there is one other thing on which I wanted to comment. Rev. Shuck sees here an indication of the reason some people are so fiercely determined to make us accept Genesis literally as some kind of literal history of the cosmos. It’s because death, according to this view, must result from sin, so how could you have evolution before human sin? After all, it’s survival of the fittest, meaning some die, and that’s anathema (another word I can’t resist after reading the letter) to some Christians.

    But here is where many Christians need to pay close attention. There is, in fact, only one of the many interpretations of Genesis that has a perfect world, into which physical death of all types is introduced by sin–young earth creationism. Other very common Christian interpretations, even among evangelicals, allow physical death before the fall. They have to. Where, for example, could an old earth creationist imagine fossils to come from? Old earth creationists aren’t that stupid–they believe that living creatures died before the fall. Many of them, by the simple expedient of thinking “spiritual/eternal” when they read of the death that followed sin, don’t have any problem with the fall at all.

    Unfortunately many Christians who hold these various views other than young earth creationism are not aware of the various interpretations, and aren’t aware that young earth creationists aren’t arguing their view–that God is simply the creator, however he worked–but rather are arguing for a 6,000 year old earth, and some incomprehensible variety of ecology in which no living thing died. There’s a mental experiment for you. Design an ecology in which every living creature continues to live forever, and yet reproduces.

    I suspect that the problem of the atonement does drive a great deal of creationism, and the entire debate would probably become a bit less contentious if the young earth crowd was not involved. Nonetheless it is interesting to see such obscure points of doctrine create such heat.

  • An Evangelist for Evolution

    The Rev. Michael Dowd is preaching a surprising message: Evolution is real and science points to the existence of God. (Source: .)

    Rev. Dowd also joins the growing group who acknowledge that accepting evolution does impact one’s theology in some ways. I find his specific take interesting.

    One theme that seems to get someone entry into Christian venues is the idea that science can help support faith. Those who say, “Evolution is true, live with it” don’t get so much of a hearing. Unfortunately, while I believe that scientific evidence can be seen as consistent with the existence of God, I see nothing that forces or drives the conclusion that there truly is a God. Often the evidence makes one drop some definition of God that one had held before.

    In a comment to a previous post Larry B. writes:

    In the same (but different) way, I honestly feel that evolution for a lot of people has unmoored more than a few christians from their foundations.

    (I don’t want to copy the whole comment here, but it is worthwhile reading the entire context.)

    I agree with this statement, but would ask what is the proper response? If people have faith that God will heal everyone for whom prayer is offered, they will very possibly be “unmoored” from that faith when reality doesn’t accord with their expectations. In the case of evolution, I suggest that there is more education needed amongst Christians about the implications and possibilities, so that people can make intelligent decisions.

    I do think it is important to note the real challenges to theology, and to welcome, rather than fear questions. Christianity is ultimately doomed if it cannot find a more friendly way to co-exist with challenges. There’s the “fall over and play dead” option and the “circle the wagons option.” We need more folks in the “let’s have fun with this” camp!

    Or at least that’s my take on it.

  • God is not that Vulnerable

    I had a short conversation with a friend and client the other day and I thought I’d share the key point. This man is a professional with a substantial scientific education, and also a devout Christian. On his desk was the book The Selfish Gene by Richard Dawkins. That got us chatting about evolution, and how so many people were bothered by it. He wasn’t even aware that Dawkins was an atheist, nor did he care.

    He said something very interesting that would have taken me several convoluted paragraphs to get across. Referring to those who feel their faith threatened by evolution he said, “God is not that vulnerable.”

    Hmmm! That works for me.