Threads from Henry's Web

Author: henry

  • Heat, Light, and Comments

    This morning I awoke to start my early morning blog and e-mail work only to find that co.mments.com had supplied me (at my request) with seven messages alerting me to comments on Ed Brayton’s most recent blog entry on the Richard Dawkins petition debate, representing 27 comments. I only worked my way through a few of the comments which seem quite repetitive.

    What struck me initially was simply that it seems like the least central of issues easily get the largest number of comments. My largest blocks of comments generally don’t come on the posts in which I feel that I’ve made a thoughtful contribution, but on those posts in which I got emotional on reading a news story or someone else’s blog entry and batted out a few paragraphs worth of annoyance.

    It’s worth considering why that is. I think my own commenting often reflects a similar trend. When I read a good, thoughtful post, I go think about it and often by the time I have anything to say, I’ve even forgotten where I read it. That’s one of the reasons I signed up for co.mments.com in the first place.

    Now I’ve already commented on this issue as such. I wrote about how I think that indoctrination, as I understand the term, is not a good thing. As a Christian, I don’t want people indoctrinated into my faith. I want them to learn about and choose it. That choice is up to them, not to me. I think the petition Richard Dawkins signed was not a good idea, and I’m glad he’s repudiated that signature. In fact, he has risen in my estimation by his response. I have realized from my first exposure to his work (reading The Blind Watchmaker [link is to my review]) that he and I are not going to see eye to eye on many things, and that he has some contempt for my liberal Christian perspective (or moderate perhaps). At the same time his writing on science is truly exceptional and challenging, and I must continue to recommend reading it. Further, I think my fellow Christians should climb down off the ceiling, especially hear in the United States. I’d be much more concerned about the religious right getting power than the “atheist left.” There is, in fact, so little “atheist left” out there, that your expectation should not be that atheism is going to take over. Probably you should be more worried about me. 🙂 The woods are full of us moderate and liberal Christians, and we’re beginning to get really annoyed at what the hard right is doing to our faith. (Note that I use “moderate” as a very broad term that actually includes most evangelicals.)

    As I was thinking up all these exciting things to say, I saw in my feeds Nick Matzke’s post Divided by a common language: Richard Dawkins clarifies his position. It doesn’t make me want to go beat up on Ed for his reaction. Many Christians will react even more forcefully and will not be satisfied with the explanations. After reading the petition, and based on my own experience living overseas, I still think that petition reads very badly and implies some inappropriate things. But what Richard Dawkins is saying in the quoted e-mail is very rational and forms a good basis for discussion.

    I think Christian education, specifically what goes on in churches in Sunday School classes, Wednesday night classes, and even many weekend retreats fails because it is shallow, repetitive, and intended for indoctrination. We want our children to be like us, and the programs are designed to make them like us. What we need is a next generation that knows how to consider, think critically, and decide. Now there will be some both non-Christians and Christians who will think I’m being foolish here, in both cases because they think children educated in that way won’t grow up as people of faith. I understand the possibilities, and I’m willing to risk it. In fact, risk is not the best word. An unthinking, knee-jerk Christian is just as much a loss to the faith and possibly more so than the person who leaves because of their best judgment.

    I believe that the reason Christianity has failed so many times in accomplishing its purpose is that the principle of self-sacrificing love is not something that can be produced by indoctrination, it can only be chosen. What indoctrination produces is a simulation of self-sacrificing love, thus hypocrisy, and soon after that judgmentalism. The fruit of unrestrained judgmentalism is persecution.

    Hopefully with Nick Matzke’s nifty contribution, and Richard Dawkins well-considered words (unlike the initial petition signing), we can work toward some light here coming out of a great deal of heat.

    Update: I don’t want to write another post on this subject, but I want to add a link to Ed Brayton’s excellent letter to Richard Dawkins that was posted after I wrote this.

  • Is Waking Up Always Good?

    John Meunier (Trouble Enough) has been reading William Abraham’s book Waking From Doctrinal Amnesia and making a few comments. Since the Wesleyan Quadrilateral was one of the things that attracted me to the United Methodist Church in the first place, I’m not sure that this is an amnesia I’d like us to wake up from.

    John has a few interesting comments in two posts: Why Not Divorce and The Incarnation and the Ad Council. Sorry John, I don’t have an answer to your main question in this one. I have heard so many forms of church organization taught as scriptural that I’m beginning to think that the most unscriptural thing to do is to claim that the structure of your congregation or denomination is “scriptural.”

    Both posts are worth reading.

  • Indoctrination and Religious Education

    In the course of the discussion of typology of ID opponents the topic of Richard Dawkins and his claim that religious indoctrination is a form of child abuse came up. Now since I’m a religious educator, and particular one who works in churches and other voluntary organizations, you can imagine that my response to Dawkins and to the petition referenced in Ed’s post, is not positive.

    I agree fully with Ed that this is not an area for governmental regulation. I also understand the difference between the British system and ours here in the United States. Thus I would support any effort to remove government support from religious education, while opposing any attempt for the government to regulate what is done in private.

    Update: Richard Dawkins has repudiated the signature on that petition. See post here with a link to the comment in which Dawkins repudiates it.

    (more…)

  • Why I Oppose ID

    . . . and how I oppose it.

    There has been an interesting flap that started when MikeGene at Telic Thoughts proposed a typology of ID critics, and Ed Brayton responded, with further response again from MikeGene.

    I think most of what needs to be said has already been said in those posts and the comments attached to them. I have to note that while I find Telic Thoughts a much more thoughtful and useful blog to read than Uncommon Descent (Translation: I now read the former, but not the latter!), my initial reaction to the typology was much less positive than Ed’s. There is, however, a point to the whole thing, which MikeGene makes. After quoting the following from Ed’s post:

    There are several things that unite all these factions. Already mentioned is their inability to contemplate the issues related to ID without relying on the “ID=religion/God” stereotype. Furthermore, I would argue that all groups entail a very strong tendency toward closed-mindedness: Types B, C, D for metaphysical reasons and Type A for political reasons. Also, all groups are united in their strong tendency to label ID proponents as “Creationists” and “threats to Science.”

    He then says:

    Yet he then spends the rest of his blog demonstrating that my description was on track, as he tries to justify his broad brushed approach that includes stereotypes and labels. I have dealt with all his arguments before, and may rehash them again. But for now, I can simply point out that while I am willing to make a distinction between someone like Ed Brayton and Richard Dawkins, Ed apparently wants to lump me with Duane Gish and Philip Johnson, where, I suppose, the TT contributors are all nothing more than players in a “PR campaign to place a thin veneer of scientific-sounding terminology over good old-fashioned religious anti-evolutionism.”

    Will the critics of ID ever break free of their stereotypes and realize that not all proponents of ID can be painted with the same broad brush?

    There is a good point here, but it is one that is not carried through.

    (more…)

  • A Dead Tyrant and Mass Murderer

    Nations welcome, condemn Saddam execution says the MSNBC.com headline, and the story reflects that dual reaction. There’s a large part of the world that believes Saddam Hussein is certainly deserving of punishment, but who condemn all instances of the death penalty.

    As an opponent of this war from before it started, I’ve found it interesting to hear what war proponents say about me and about other opponents of the war. Some have suggested that I’m some sort of apologist for Saddam Hussein and for his regime. The one sense in which I might approach this is in saying that under Hussein, Iraq and Iran tended to neutralize one another. Both were ruled by brutal regimes, yet the rest of the world got some peace because they had to watch one another so closely. Yet I think that the one clear thing in this war is that removing Saddam from power was justified–in a vacuum–and that allowing him to be executed was appropriate, in the context of the war as it has developed.

    In terms of results, there will probably be an upsurge of violence at the execution of Saddam, but I really doubt it will make the situation substantially worse. There were no terrorists just biding their time until Saddam was executed, saying, “We’ll leave them alone unless they execute him!” They already hate us and already want to blow us up. In the end, though I think it was justified, I don’t think this execution is going to make much difference.

    But outside of that vacuum, it doesn’t justify the war.

    (more…)

  • Thinking About Hell

    Via the Christian Blog Carnival I found this article on hell with some discussion of various views held by Christians.

  • New in the Moderate Christian Blogroll

    I’ve just added Kouya Chronicle to the aggregator and blogroll. Kouya Chronicle is written by Eddie and Sue Arthur, who have some interesting involvement in Bible translation. I welcome them to the moderate Christian blogroll.

  • Moderate Christian Blog Roundup #2

    OK, this is getting regular, which I know is contrary to my personality, but here comes another roundup of the http://www.moderatechristian.com”>Moderate Christian Blog Aggregator. I’m seeing a lot of good posts on the blogs covered by the aggregator and would like to help see them get some more attention, so here goes. Note that the order in which I list these is random except that I round up my own other blogs last. I do not include any blogs with no posts since my last roundup.

    Bruce Alderman writes about the stories of the birth of Jesus in Matthew and Luke. These are excellent entries. I’d really love to see more of this type of writing applying scholarship to scripture in a way that the general public can understand. The entries are Christmas According to Matthew and Christmas According to Luke.

    Kievas Fargo reminds us of what Jesus could have done as opposed to what he actually did in O Holy Night. Aren’t you glad Jesus chose the way he did?

    Allan tells us that we can receive the greatest Christmas gift right now in The Greatest Gift of All is Jesus.

    Kara at Everyday Liturgy writes about the importance of traditions in developing our Christian life in Traditions.

    Peter Kirk writes about two women teachers/preachers and wonders how complementarians deal with the good fruit of their labors. I wonder the same thing. Good approach!

    Tom Sims tells us that suddenly it’s Christmas and says:

    In fact, the preparation that God requires is not that which we provide at all. The naked truth is that God has prepared our hearts for Christmas. It is always now that we may welcome the Son of God into our hearts afresh. It is always in our darkness that the light is welcome. And it is always our own unawareness and self-reliance that humbugizes us. Suddenly it is Christmas and we are ready. Glory to God!

    I just had to quote that!

    Gavin at Hit the Back Button to Move Forward moves us toward New Year’s Day with a devotional that challenges us to become revolutionaries.

    At monastic mumblings, the topic is the days of Christmas. Entries thus far are: 1st Day of Christmas (Christmas blessing), 2nd Day of Christmas, 3rd Day of Christmas – Feast of St. John the Apostle, and 4th Day of Christmas – Slaughter of the Innocents.

    From my wife’s devotional list, Jody’s Devotionals, the entry is one I wrote for her, talking about the down side of becoming a baby in first century Palestine and suggest that we need to empty ourselves.

    Donny Prater says it’s time for New Year’s resolutions and suggests that a good resolution would be to Just Say No!.

    It’s Donny Pauling’s 33rd birthday.

    The Pen of the Wayfarer tells about a life surrendered to Jesus in My Life or His Life and challenges us to surrender.

    As for my own blogs, on the Jevlir Caravansary I have posted a new short story about Daniel, written in the tradition of apocryphal Daniel stories. On the Participatory Bible Study Blog I wrote about avoiding major errors in Bible study in Bible Study, Community, and Agendas. I contributed Getting Things in Focus to Pacesetters Bible School News Blog, challenging us to find the right focus and bring things into line with that focus in our personal and our church lives.

  • On Bible Translation from realmealministries.org

    From realmealministries.org comes a brief discussion of Bible translations and how to make your choice of one to use. There is some good material here, though obviously in such a short presentation it cannot be tremendously detailed.

    Since this is also a favored topic of my own (see Bible Version Selection Tool), I’d like to call attention to it.

  • Christian Carnival CLIV Posted

    The Christian Carnival CLIV has been posted at From the Anchor Hold. It’s another nice selection and a good job by the host. I didn’t get a submission in because I was out of town and away from a good internet connection, but I hope to have time to call attention to some particular posts.

    Happy New Year to All!