Threads from Henry's Web

Author: henry

  • Interpreting the Bible IV – Scientific Statements

    In my daily reading I encounter many different types of literature, each of which relates to the science I know in a different way. For example, I might read a newspaper, in which case the question is just what is an article about. Is it about art? I will look at it through one set of glasses. A report on a scientific discovery? My expectations change substantially. I might read a book of fantasy, in which case I expect very little relationship to real science. If I read a science text, however, I am going to judge it very critically on how well it conveys scientific information.

    In each of these cases, what constitutes a “mistake” is going to differ greatly. “The sun sets in the west” is very proper in popular speech, in art, or in poetry. It’s questionable in a story about science, and in general would only be used as an example of how inaccurate popular speech can be in a science text.

    If one criticized a poem for its scientific inaccuracy for such a statement, one would be viewed as odd. Viewing the Bible that way is pretty standard. Now I’m not denying here that the Bible has different types of literature in which scientific statements might be seen differently. What I will say, however, is that the Bible has nothing in it that qualifies even as a popular news story about a scientific discovery. It certainly has in it nothing close to a textbook on a scientific topic.

    Yet many people expect a specifically scientific type of accuracy when they read the Bible. I believe this comes to some extent from the modern view of scientific knowledge as the best type of knowledge available. We want scientific proof that God exists or that miracles happen, because we believe that’s the best category of evidence available. We think the Bible should talk about science in some way, because science (in the modern science, not the older “general knowledge”) is the best type of knowledge there is.

    Of course, God may have a different idea. Personally I would argue that God does talk about science, and he does so in the fabric of the universe. We hear that message through scientific study. I don’t want to get into the details of such a view here; suffice it to say it exists.

    But we still must be careful in saying that the Bible does not make scientific statements. I’ve gotten into trouble on this before, because people often hear that as “The Bible doesn’t say anything correct about the physical world.” That’s not the case and it’s not my point. What I mean is that the Bible doesn’t make statements either with scientific precision, i.e. intended as testable hypotheses properly qualified, nor does it attempt to advance specifically scientific knowledge.

    Now there’s a lot of room for disagreement there. Just how precisely must the Biblical statements agree with a modern scientific view? Laying aside the question of whether the modern scientific understanding of any topic is correct (what will people think of our current knowledge in another 200 years, not to mention 2,000 or 4,000?), one can at least divide that between those who believe that the Bible need not agree with scientific knowledge in any particular way (though it may) or those who believe that where the Bible makes a statement that impinges on science in any way, it must be accurate.

    Let’s take a quick example, which I already mentioned previously. We know that the Bible is not a mathematics text, yet it almost accidentally mentions the ratio that is PI, though not providing us with a number calculated to any decimal places in 1 Kings 7:23:

    Then he made the molten sea; it was round, ten cubits from brim to brim, and five cubits high. A line of thirty cubits would encircle it completely. (NRSV)

    I know of some Biblical critics who are embarrassed that people bring this up as an objection to the Bible, and well they should be, because it really causes nobody any actual problems. On the other hand, it illustrates what I am talking about quite nicely.

    There are several things that one might think about this statement:

    1. The writer is using approximations in his numbers
    2. The brazen sea isn’t precisely round, but perhaps oval, another type of approximation
    3. These are not builder’s plans, and thus the precise number is unnecessary
    4. There is no particular reason for the writer to provide us with the value of PI

    All of which are quite possibly true. Some others have brought up issues such as measuring from the outside or the inside of the rim. I would note that Biblical Hebrew doesn’t have an easy means of expressing decimal places, and fractions are a mite wordy. So what is the difference here? PI is 3.1416, which is itself rounded from 3.14159, which is rounded from… Why do I choose a particular precision? I do so according to my need, in this case my need to show how we approximate numbers on a regular basis.

    One could quite reasonably read the passage as “The sea was round, about 10 cubits across and about 30 cubits around the rim.”

    My point? The precision of our statements of such topics depends on the need. I heard a similar example yesterday in a store. One of the clerks was giving directions. He said, “You turn right and then go 2 or 3 miles, and you’ll find Walmart on the left.” Is he giving lousy directions if Walmart is 3.3 miles? 2.7? 1.9? Actually, if he follows the directions he’ll find where he’s going.

    Now compare this to directions I got about a year ago to find someone’s house. I was told to turn right and then check my odometer, because I needed to go precisely 1.1 miles and turn right on a road that didn’t have a clear road sign. I did so, and at 1.1 miles I turned right onto the specified road, and only saw the sign with the road name on it after I made the turn. The clerk’s directions were good for his circumstances, but would have failed for mine. On the other hand, giving a precise number to the tenth for finding Walmart would simply be distracting.

    To get back to Genesis 1, if one assumes it is intended as a scientific treatise, one should be concerned with things like how days would be calculated before the fourth day when the sun was created. (Though I would note that one does not have to conclude from the text that the sun was actually created on the fourth day; it might be a case of revelation.) One might also be concerned with what “day” was before the fourth day. After all, the sun is created to “rule the day” suggesting that “day” already existed before the sun was there. But now I’m descending into silliness.

    If, on the other hand, Genesis 1 is liturgy, there is no reason to expect a logical and scientific progression in the events. But between these views we have any number of senses in which Genesis might be heard as a form of narrative history, in which case, while it need not make scientifically precise statements, it could well make statements that would impact scientific data. For example, if the story says, “the sun set,” even if we allow the non-scientific nature of the way of indicating the end of the day, if there is no sun, the statement would be false–no sun, no setting.

    In each case one must look at the particular genre and the nature of what the author is trying to communicate within that genre (witness my two instances, both of giving directions, but with different requirements), in order to determine what type of statements to expect, and the precision one must expect of them. A man describing the temple has no need to communicate the precise value of PI, while someone celebrating God’s creation of the world has no need to describe orbits or solar fusion.

    Now I personally believe that not only does the Bible not make scientific statements as I have described, but that it speaks its message into a context of the knowledge of the audience. In other words, as God wishes to communicate things about his order, his control of creation, and his plan for humanity, he doesn’t distract them by saying that they don’t understand yet that the world is a sphere (though they did think it was round like a dinner plate), that the earth revolves around the sun rather than the reverse, or that stars were light years away.

    Those points, as interesting as they would be to us today, would be a distraction. In fact, I would suggest that they would completely take over the more important message that the Bible has to deliver.

    We think scientific knowledge is the most important; God doesn’t agree, and he communicated according to his priorities, not ours.

  • Bill Arnold on the Composition of Genesis

    I have written quite a bit about this topic on this blog, and am also doing a series related to it on my Threads blog, so I was glad to see another summary article (HT:  Dr. Platypus).  Most lay people are not well acquainted with critical theories about the Pentateuch, as they get the briefest of descriptions followed by either a dismissal from one side or an assertion of scholarly consensus on the other.

    Bill Arnold’s article is very useful for several reasons.  He outlines the overall theory very well along with traditional dating of the various sources.  He discusses some of the possibilities for the history of those sources, and alternative dating.  He does take up some non-traditional views, but in several cases (looking at the dating of P, and some of what he says on H), I happen to agree.  It’s always nice for the non-specialist to find some fine scholar agreeing with his much less sophisticated opinions!  I was convinced by the linguistic arguments from Dr. Jacob Milgrom in his Leviticus commentary from the Anchor Bible series, whose praises I sing from time to time.

    Having said all that, I commend the article to those who would like to know more about this topic.

  • Some Thoughts on a Methodist Experiment

    Kevin Watson has provided an update on his social media experiment with a YouTube video, which I posted here, and frankly I’m a bit disappointed.

    Now I know that many of us in the blogosphere, and similarly in the methoblogosphere, are wary of getting roped in to publicize something, such as Kevin Watson’s book. I also found some weaknesses in the video itself, though I’m hardly an expert on such things. When I make a YouTube video it has me talking, and well, more of me talking.

    Having said that, however, my video Why I Hate the KJV has 3,456 views and 227 comments, despite being much lower quality than the video we were promoting in the experiment. Don’t compare those numbers directly, however, because my video was posted April 8, 2008. On the other hand, about 1500 of those views occurred within the first couple of weeks. If you look at my other videos, however, about 200 views is great, and many stay in the low double digits. But those videos are not subject to an experiment, and lack any quality production–I do them in my office on a home machine.

    My question to the Methoblogosphere is whether we would every be willing to be harnessed just a little bit to discuss a particular topic. The comments could be positive, negative, neutral, or any other adjective (other than abusive, I hope!), but we could really discuss some single topic. I’m not going to start an experiment, but the idea would be to seriously and broadly discuss a single topic as the Methoblogosphere. No, I’m not expecting 100% participation, but it seems like it could be bigger than this.

    I’m also well aware that we won’t agree, and that most of us, including myself, do not wish to be harnessed as a publicity engine for Nashville. On the other hand, if Nashville puts out a program, wouldn’t it be nice if people could get on the web and find comments from a variety of perspectives when they’re deciding whether to use it in their church? (Hint to Nashville: Send me a free copy and I’ll review it!)

    My interest, however, is more in seeing some more elements of community and connection in the Methoblogosphere. Am I nuts, or is there some potential in here somewhere? I have no illusions that I’ve got anything like a fully fleshed and clothed idea here. Let the criticism fly!

  • Let Them Pray Together

    Bruce Alderman has a wonderful suggestion for Bishop Gene Robinson and Rev. Rick Warren:

    Personally, what I’d like to see is for Robinson and Warren to sit down and say a prayer together. This issue shouldn’t tear the church apart, regardless of who is right.

    If nothing else, we could call it loving enemies and praying for those who persecute you (Matthew 5:44). Perhaps it could even be better than that!

  • Interpreting the Bible III – The Impact of Inerrancy

    Update (1/15/09): For those in the habit of reading posts and skipping comments, I want to note that there is an important and substantial exchange of comments between Peter Kirk (Gentle Wisdom), Jeremy Pierce (Parableman), and myself that helps clarify this issue substantially.

    In my first post in this series, I made the following comment in response to a quote:

    While I certainly agree that the Bible is not inerrant, the rest simply does not follow. A simplistic idea of how one gets from scriptural text to doctrinal belief is posited and then discarded. An idea of the word of God that may or may not be correct (or more importantly held or not held by a community) is assumed and then dismissed.

    In that quote I kind of dismiss inerrancy from consideration and focus on the idea that one can automatically dismiss the Bible as God’s word because one has dismissed inerrancy. I will continue to make the second point–inerrancy isn’t necessary to regarding the Bible as God’s word–but I need to comment further on inerrancy.

    In my experience most people think that a belief in Biblical inerrancy is a critical dividing line, and that is one is asked what difference inerrancy makes, one should answer (misusing Paul in Romans 3:2): Much in every way!

    But inerrancy is something that is easy to misunderstand, and perhaps almost impossible to both understand and express in a way that is acceptable to everyone. Someone is going to claim misrepresentation somewhere, even if one uses an official statement such as the Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy. I’m not going to work through this statement right now, but suffice it to say for the moment that I reject inerrancy, even as defined in the Chicago Statement.

    But there are many different ways of defining inerrancy, and nobody really owns the term so as to control its meaning. Should one use the more academic definition? Or perhaps the most popular view is correct.

    In conversation, I usually find that folks would like to define inerrancy simply as “the Bible doesn’t have any mistakes in it.” That’s pretty simple and straightforward. But does it work? When someone nuances this position, they are often accused of some kind of weasel-wording in order to pretend that clear errors don’t actually exist.

    In fact, however, because of the complexity of the topic and the number of different claims that are made, one almost certainly must add some nuance to the definition in order to make any sense.

    The first question is simply what Bible one is referring to. Is this a particular translation? The KJV-Only advocates would claim that the KJV is without error, and they don’t accept a claim to believe in inerrancy from those who don’t make the claim of that particular translation. They will ask, “What is your final authority? Where is an inerrant document that I can get my hands on?” So at a minimum, one must specify precisely what Bible is inerrant.

    One can choose between many translations, the Bible in its source languages, some particular manuscript in the source languages, or the autographs. Each of these has interesting implications. There are few claims of inerrancy for translations in general, certainly not from anyone familiar with the process of translation. The “inerrant translation” idea is almost exclusively the product of the KJV-Only movement.

    Inerrancy in the original languages sounds good to those without acquaintance with the manuscripts, but quickly falls afoul of the facts of a variety of manuscripts, each with differences in the text. Thus you will only rarely find a simple claim to inerrancy in the original languages apart from some specific claim about which text outside of popular discussion. I do get this question from lay members in churches fairly frequently. Academics of whatever theological persuasion, however, know better.

    This leads to two options: 1) inerrancy of a particular text, usually asserted of the Byzantine or of the majority text, and 2) inerrancy of the autographs. Since inerrancy of a particular text also provides difficulties, such as differences in the manuscripts within that tradition, such a claim is again only rarely made, or generally nuanced so as to mean “nearly 100% accurate” which amounts logically to the second claim: Inerrancy of the autographs.

    With this there is the problem that we simply do not have the autographs. Nonetheless, for definition purposes, we have a precise text at a precise point of time, even if we can’t lay hands on the precise text. Opponents of the doctrine of inerrancy, including me, wonder just how important it can be to assert that an inaccessible text has a particular attribute. But that is beside the point for my discussion here.

    I hope you can see why someone who asserts inerrancy must provide some further data. When they say, “Inerrancy of the autographs” they aren’t tap dancing. They’re just getting to the point of being precise enough so that someone can understand and discuss their claim.

    But now we get to just what one would call an error. Here is where opponents of inerrancy outside the field of Biblical studies can get extremely impatient. What’s an error? Well, it’s a mistake! PI is 3.0 (1 Kings 7:23)? It’s a mistake! Seven literal 24 hour days? It didn’t happen. It’s a mistake!

    So let’s ask another question. It says in Judges 9:8 that “The trees once went out to anoint a king over them . . .” So did the trees “go out”? (Remember, this isn’t Narnia!) Did they anoint a king? Is it a mistake? Well, such a passage can be true on a couple of levels, including whether the words were spoken by the person quoted. If you quote a liar lying, is it a lie on your part? But of course the real point in this passage is that it is a parable, and you are not intended to believe that the trees actually did this.

    I chose that obvious passage that nobody would take literally, because one popular idea of inerrancy is essentially equivalent to “the Bible is all literally true.” Even “literally true” is problematic, because I have heard it interpreted to mean that the Bible is pretty much all literal (everyone has their exceptions) on the one hand, to someone who told me that “taking the Bible literally” meant “taking it as it is intended” so that he would take a passage figuratively, while claiming to take the entire Bible literally. Personally, I think he was using the very common equation of “literally” with “true” and “figuratively” with “not-so-much true.”

    There’s a very popular variant of this is to take the Bible literally at any point at which it can be taken literally. Tim LaHaye in his not-so-good book How to Study the Bible for Yourself, p. 160, says:

    . . . A good rule to follow is to try to interpret each passage literally. If this is obviously not the case, then as a last resort try to find the spiritual or symbolical truth it is communicating.

    Obviously he followed this principle in producing his interpretations of Revelation. I don’t have his book at hand, but I believe Dr. David Jeremiah recommended attempting literal interpretation first in the book of Revelation (Escape the Coming Night). Though I cannot recall for certain that he explicitly recommends it, I know that he practices it.

    Where this view of inerrancy can be best tested, however, is in passages that might easily be taken either way. These would, in my view, include Genesis 1-2, where one might quite justifiably argue various positions on the original intent, or passages that may be read as fiction or not, such as Jonah or Job. Many mainline students of scriptures would be surprised at how many people find the issue of Ruth, Jonah, Esther, or Job as fiction controversial. For some, however, having a story like that, which is not actually presented as a parable or illustration, not be true would violate their view of inerrancy.

    One of the best very short definitions of an academic notion of Biblical inerrancy is this: The Bible is without error in what it intends to convey. The problem with any short definition is that it lacks some details and nuance, but this one covers quite a lot of ground. For example, if Jonah is fiction and intended to convey certain theological truths rather than a narrative history of a certain person in a certain period, that doesn’t violate inerrancy. I have seen this stretched quite far, to the argument that one can accept inerrancy and date the book of Daniel in the 2nd century.

    This argument was made by Ernest Lucas in his commentary on Daniel from the Apolos Old Testament Commentary series. He doesn’t take sides himself, but he argues that one can use either dating for Daniel and still accept the doctrine of inerrancy. This would involve understanding a great deal of prediction as history, a great deal of the story as fictional, along with the whole setting for the writing of the material. Is it possible? Indeed, most scholars believe that the setting, the story, and the predictions are all fictional, except for a very small portion that would be contemporary with, or in the immediate future of, the writer. In general, however, these same scholars don’t claim to believe in inerrancy.

    I would add one more way in which one might state that the Bible is without error–by claiming that the Bible is precisely the way God wanted it, i.e. that if there is an apparent or even real error of fact, it’s in there because God wants it there. This would be hard even for me to disagree with, but I think it is so far from what anyone would hear me saying if I said “I accept inerrancy” that it would be lying for me to make the claim.

    So just how does Biblical inerrancy impact interpretation, which is, after all, the topic of this series? Well, actually, as you can see, the type of inerrancy which Ernest Lucas seems to espouse doesn’t really eliminate any possible interpretation that I might claim myself. I think that it does force one to be a bit disingenuous regarding the author’s intent.

    For example, if the writer of Daniel lived in the 2nd century BCE, wrote pseudonymously, invented an author and narrative or (more likely) borrowed it from folk tales, produced lengthy prophecies of the future but which weren’t really about the future, was the author lying in order to make his final prediction more convincing, or was he following literary conventions of his time? In other words, did he intend people to realize that what he wrote was largely fictional? One can debate this, but I’m afraid I would tend to support the idea that the “predictions” were developed to give weight to the rest of the book, and they would only give weight if people believed they had been written much earlier and had been fulfilled.

    But in terms of Genesis 1 & 2, there is next to nothing that I would claim in interpreting this passage that could not be claimed by someone who accepts inerrancy. In other words, inerrancy and the theory of evolution need not stand opposed, provided one accepts certain literary categories for the writings in question.

    Unless I get side-tracked again, which I probably will, I’m going to write on the Bible and scientific statements for my next post in this series.

    Previously posted: part 1 and part 2.

  • Cleaning Blogroll

    One more administrative post for the day–I’m cleaning my blogroll. I am removing many links that are duplicated with the external blogrolls I display (Moderate Christian Blogroll, Unright Christian Blogs, Philophronos Blogroll, and the Methoblog). I am also removing defunct blogs.

    If your blog disappeared from the roll completely, and it’s not defunct, please let me know. The removal was unintentional.

  • Broad Category Feeds

    For those who may be interested only in part of the subject matter of this blog, I have created three broad category feeds:

    I will include posts that cross the boundaries of two of these in both of the tags so you’ll get them if you subscribe to that feed.

  • Moving to Feedburner

    . . . or I might say feedproxy from Google.

    Many of you may not be aware, but I do make part of my income from writing, and I wanted to have the opportunity to show just a small ad with my posts. I earlier had a post in which I asked whether people preferred the entire post in their reader, or whether they liked the “read more” link. The majority prefer to get everything in their reader. So I went along with that.

    So I decided, after seeing it in a number of other posts, to use adsense to add just a little ad at the end of each post. I don’t like feeds and e-mails that are largely advertising with just a little bit of content. When I add the adsense code I will restrict it from very small posts (under 250 words), so that it won’t appear on posts that just link to another person’s post, for example.

    I hope this will be tolerable. I also note that some of my posts were duplicated in the feed during the update process. I’m not sure precisely what caused this. I’m assuming it won’t happen more than once.

    I appreciate all my readers and subscribers. Thanks for your time!

  • First UMC ICON Service

    A few days ago I posted a video about the new service being offered at my home church, First United Methodist Church of Pensacola.

    Yesterday I attended the first service. We ran out of standing room and about 80 people had to be sent to the other service. I am very interested in the concept of the service, which combines strong traditional elements of liturgy with technology and contemporary music and art. In fact, one of the characteristics claimed for the service is “art embracing.”

    I will confess that “art embracing” isn’t at the top of my personal list, but I think it must be a priority in a service that will serve the generation after mine, and also people who are more visually oriented than I am in my own generation.

    The preaching continues to be great, and the preaching was one of the reasons I joined First UMC. Dr. Wesley Wachob and Rev. Geoffrey Lentz (who is kind enough to remind everyone that I was his first Greek teacher, even when I forget to!) are both very adept at the sermon form.

    I was most impressed, however, with the was the program came together logistically. It looked to me a great deal like accomplishing several impossible things before breakfast, and then piling on a few more before lunch. The only major issue was one that resulted from the overwhelming success–it was crowded. I’m guessing that the leaders will have their own long list of things to make better; that’s just who they are. But I’m just impressed with what was accomplished.

    Well done!

    PS: I wrote the devotional for my wife’s list this morning, also about this service. She was unable to attend due to work, and so asked me to write a response.

  • Baptism and the Water Metaphor

    Baptism of our Lord, Cycle B

    When we hear the word “water” in our modern world we generally think of nice things–a thirst-quenching drink, a nice shower or bath, fun in a swimming pool, or perhaps a fine ocean cruse.  Thus when we think about baptism we tend to think mostly about cleansing or even refreshment.

    This week’s lectionary texts are all about baptism, which is fitting, consider it is the Sunday to commemorate the baptism of Jesus.  Considering that the texts are Genesis 1:1-5, Psalm 29, Acts 19:1-7, and Mark 1:4-11, you might wonder that I say that all the texts deal with baptism.  But that’s my point here.  These texts provide a very good way to help us understand what “water” and “baptism” might have meant to those in the ancient world.

    First, we have the waters that are the chaos prior to creation.  The people of the ancient world didn’t think of the ocean as a nice place.  Even the seagoing ancients were very careful and very conscious of the dangers.  Shipping tended to be coastal.  The sea represented the chaotiic and unknown.  It was only the working of God’s spirit over the water that made any sort of order possible.

    Second we have the waters of judgment as seen in the flood, which are closely related to the pre-creation chaos.  Sin in scripture separates us from God’s creative power, and the results of sin can be represented in the same way with water, in this case floodwaters.  Genesis 1:2 and 7:11 share the Hebrew term “tehom” which is the “deep” of Genesis 1, while Genesis 7:6 and Psalm 29:10 share the term “mabbul” meaning flood.  The key element is that God is in control even of the flood.

    In our passages in Mark and Acts, however, we extend this metaphor to the action of the Holy Spirit on those who receive baptism.  Baptism is more of a symbol–it is a sacrament.  It represents something that truly takes place in the person.

    This brings us to waters of cleansing and also empowerment.  Note how the metaphor changes as we see the action of the Spirit illustrated through the action of water.  God’s creative power is the key in all these passages.

    If in teaching or preaching you get across the idea that water has a much broader range of meaning than we would normally think.