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	<title>Threads from Henry&#039;s Web &#187; New Testament</title>
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		<title>Book Notes:  An Introduction to the New Testament (DeSilva)</title>
		<link>http://henrysthreads.com/2008/10/book-notes-an-introduction-to-the-new-testament-desilva/</link>
		<comments>http://henrysthreads.com/2008/10/book-notes-an-introduction-to-the-new-testament-desilva/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Oct 2008 01:29:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Henry Neufeld</dc:creator>
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		<category><![CDATA[New Testament]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.energionpubs.com/wordpress/?p=1554</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[ <p>DeSilva, David A. An Introduction to the New Testament: Contexts, Methods, and Ministry Formation. Downers Grove, IL, 2004. ISBN 0-8308-2746-3. 974 pp. (904 without front matter and indexes).</p> <p>This is a bit out of place for review here and by me, but I wanted to write a few notes about it anyhow.</p> <p>If I [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>DeSilva, David A.  <a href="http://www.amazon.com/dp/0830827463/?tag=henryneufeld">An Introduction to the New Testament:  Contexts, Methods, and Ministry Formation</a>.  Downers Grove, IL, 2004.  ISBN 0-8308-2746-3.  974 pp. (904  without front matter and indexes).</p>
	<p>This is a bit out of place for review here and by me, but I wanted to write a few notes about it anyhow.</p>
	<div style="float: left; margin: 0.1in">
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	<p>If I were to teach an course in New Testament Introduction, admittedly not all that likely, I would want to use this text.  I&#8217;m not an NT specialist, and this book is not well suited to the groups I usually teach.  It&#8217;s designed for the seminary student, and I wish I&#8217;d had it as a text at that time.  Alas, that was the 70s, and the copyright date is 2004.</p>
	<p>Why do I like it?  The primary reason is that it covers issues in New Testament criticism effectively and practically.  By &#8220;effectively&#8221; I mean that various critical methods are described briefly and clearly so that the student can grasp both the origins of the method and how the method might be applied even by those who don&#8217;t accept all the presuppositions of those who originated it.  The description is rounded out by examples.  By &#8220;practically&#8221; I mean that each such section concludes with practical exercises.</p>
	<p>I had to figure a great deal of this stuff out by working backward from commentaries.  There are, of course, a number of rather good books which I discovered along the way (Augsburg Fortress&#8217; series <em>Guides to Biblical Scholarship</em> comes to mind), but both my undergraduate and graduate experiences generally involved hearing or reading the claims, struggling with the material, and then finding the good explanations afterward.</p>
	<p>These sections don&#8217;t just cover a few traditional critical skills.  They range from textual criticism to feminist criticism with the positive and negative aspects of each, and all those between.</p>
	<p>A secondary reason to like this book is the emphasis, indicated in the subtitle, on ministry formation.  I work largely with lay audiences, but I do frequently get to talk with pastors, and one great weakness of seminary education, from my unscientific survey, is a lack of practical application.  I can do [something taught in seminary], but how will I use it?  Each book of the New Testament has a discussion of how it can be helpful in ministry formation.</p>
	<p>These sections are <em>good</em>.  I would think that a good seminary student would want to keep this one for his library shelves.  If he or she did not, it would set off alarm bells for me.</p>
	<p>Just to give an example of the types of topics, let me look at the book of Romans, since it&#8217;s one I&#8217;m studying for personal devotions at the moment, as well as at church.  We encounter a full page excursus on the literary integrity of Romans, a slightly longer one discussing faith in Romans, another titled &#8220;Grace and Justification in Jewish Sources&#8221;, one on &#8220;Paul&#8217;s Hermeneutics and the Pesharim of Qumran&#8221;, another on &#8220;The Enigma of Romans 7:7-25&#8243; (he and I would disagree in part there, but it&#8217;s a pretty thorough discussion), and &#8220;The Law:  Catalyst for Sin or Divine Remedy.&#8221;  The &#8220;EXEGETICAL SKILL&#8221; section is a bit over 2 1/2 pages on social-scientific criticism discussing analysis of ritual.  The Ministry formation section covers a bit over seven pages.  All of this is the extras that frame an excellent introduction to the book and to tendencies in interpretation.  DeSilva even manages to discuss homosexuality, though doubtless due to the nature of the topic, nobody will be satisfied!</p>
	<p>Not being a specialist in this area, I really haven&#8217;t surveyed the full field of New Testament introductions&#8211;there are quite a number of them&#8211;but I have read a few, and none matched the quality of this one in all ways.</p>
	<p>I should note that DeSilva is clearly more conservative theologically than I am and more negative on the values of some of the older forms of criticism&#8211;form, redaction, and source, for example.  But that does not prevent him from presenting both the positive aspects and the nuts and bolts methodology, within the scope to be expected of a work of this size.  I would not be uncomfortable basing a class discussion on his material on any of the topics, even homosexuality.</p>
	<p>Unfortunately, as I said, I won&#8217;t get much opportunity to use this book, but I did enjoy reading it, and I do recommend it as a way to kind of round up your New Testament exegetical skills, especially if you&#8217;ve gotten stuck a bit in a specialist&#8217;s rut.  If you are an NT specialist about to teach NT introduction, check it out.</p>
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<li><a href="http://henrysthreads.com/2008/10/book-notes-an-old-testament-theology-waltke/" rel="bookmark" class="crp_title">Book Notes:  An Old Testament Theology (Waltke)</a></li>
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		<title>Christianity vs Paulianity</title>
		<link>http://henrysthreads.com/2006/12/christianity-vs-paulianity/</link>
		<comments>http://henrysthreads.com/2006/12/christianity-vs-paulianity/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Dec 2006 14:04:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Henry Neufeld</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Biblical Inspiration]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Christianity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[New Testament]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.energionpubs.com/wordpress/?p=464</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[ <p>Dave Warnock has made an interesting discovery while looking at the interview with Wayne Grudem that Adrian Warnock is publishing on his blog (#6 entry). Jesus has been almost totally left out of the argument.</p> <p>I commented on the type of view of scripture that seems to lead to this previously, and in my [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Dave Warnock has made <a href="http://42.blogs.warnock.me.uk/2006/12/the_case_of_the.html">an interesting discovery</a> while looking at the interview with Wayne Grudem that Adrian Warnock is publishing on <a href="http://www.adrian.warnock.info/2006/12/interview-wayne-grudem-part-six-did.htm">his blog (#6 entry)</a>.  Jesus has been almost totally left out of the argument.</p>
	<p>I commented on the type of view of scripture that seems to lead to this <a href="http://www.energionpubs.com/wordpress/?p=447">previously</a>, and in my recent post on <a href="http://www.energionpubs.com/wordpress/?p=456">deciding who is saved</a> I note that one of the problems I see with current evangelical views on atonement, and particularly on putting penal substitutionary atonement front and center, is that it puts the material out of order.</p>
	<p>In the history of salvation, Jesus came first, and then Paul interpreted him.  While the gospels are generally dated after the letters of Paul (though this can be contested), the oral traditions of Jesus on which Christianity first rode forth into the world obviously predate anything Paul wrote.  Many modern Christians seem like art critics who, instead of actually looking at a painting, read from a description while the painting itself is readily available.  The direction of study should start with Jesus, and who he is, and then read Paul where he fits in, which is in applying the message of Jesus to a broader community.  In particular, the kingdom parables say some fairly definitive things about the kingdom, which we often permit theology to override.</p>
	<p><span id="more-464"></span></p>
	<p>I have to be careful here, because some people who would make the same argument I have thus far use this in order to discard what Paul said.  I&#8217;m not asking us to do that.  I&#8217;m particularly asking us to fit Paul&#8217;s work into the picture at the appropriate point, and we can&#8217;t do that unless we look at Jesus first.  To broaden this out a bit, we can&#8217;t understand any of this unless we identify a sort of super <a href="http://www.participatorystudyseries.com/biblestudy/?p=114">trajectory</a> of precisely what God is trying to accomplish through salvation, and that takes us back to the Torah.  A couple of years ago I worked through Leviticus with Dr. Jacob Milgrom&#8217;s <a href="http://energion.com/books/biblical/milgrom_lev.shtml">three volume Anchor Bible commentary</a>, and it was quite an eye opener.  I&#8217;ve followed that up with considerably more study.  I think we Christians might change much of our understanding of Jesus if we got past the basic &#8220;sacrifice to atone for sin&#8221; element and looked at the depth and breadth of what God was teaching through the entire ceremonial system.  But again I&#8217;m touching on large subjects with just a few sentences.</p>
	<p>I think the first question we need to try to answer is this:  What is God trying to accomplish through the plan of salvation?  Many different Christian groups will claim that the answer is simple, and I&#8217;ve even been told I&#8217;m obviously undereducated because I ask such a question, but the problem is that these various groups don&#8217;t answer the question in the same way.  Thus things may be slightly less certain than many people think.</p>
	<p>Once you have the answer to that question, treat it like a hypothesis and test it.  Does your answer fit when you read the Torah?  Does it fit when you read the prophets?  Does it fit when you read the gospels?  Does it fit when you read Paul?</p>
	<p>I&#8217;m going to write more about these topics over time, but there are just huge amounts of material that could be covered, and I&#8217;m not going to get it done very quickly.  But I think just proposing the questions is valuable.  Much that I hear about salvation seems to me to not even be <em>Paulianity</em>, but rather a subset of that primarily taken from Romans and Galatians (and often only parts of those), which are seen as definitive and then imposed outside of that.  Checking theology against books like 1 and 2 Corinthians, Philippians, Ephesians, and Colossians is an extremely valuable adjunct.  Paul implies a great deal about his theology when he is giving practical advice, and I don&#8217;t think the systematic theologians have given enough weight to Paul&#8217;s pastoral concerns.</p>
	<p>Christianity vs Paulianity?  There shouldn&#8217;t be a problem, but there is, and will be as long as they are not put in the right relationship in the development of Christianity.</p>
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	<li><a href="http://henrysthreads.com/2006/06/t4g-article-ii-canon-within-canon/" rel="bookmark" class="crp_title">T4G Article II:  Canon within Canon</a></li>
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		<title>Is the Trilemma about Jesus Useful?</title>
		<link>http://henrysthreads.com/2006/08/is-the-trilemma-about-jesus-useful/</link>
		<comments>http://henrysthreads.com/2006/08/is-the-trilemma-about-jesus-useful/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Aug 2006 14:19:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Henry Neufeld</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Biblical Criticism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Biblical Inerrancy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Biblical Inspiration]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[New Testament]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.energionpubs.com/wordpress/?p=279</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[	<p>Yesterday I wandered by the The Evangelical Outpost just to see what was going on, and besides finding a current thread on which I want to comment, I found an older one, Jefferson&#8217;s Jesus:  An Appreciation of the Trilemma.  In this post Joe Carter undertakes to defend the trilemma, a much maligned and yet much used argument.</p>
	<p>First let me quote:</p>
	<p>
Philosopher Peter Kreeft considers the trilemma to be the “most important argument in Christian apologetics.

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	Jesus the Logician Project
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]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Yesterday I wandered by the <a href="http://www.evangelicaloutpost.com">The Evangelical Outpost</a> just to see what was going on, and besides finding a current thread on which I want to comment, I found an older one, <a href="http://www.evangelicaloutpost.com/archives/003074.html">Jefferson&#8217;s Jesus:  An Appreciation of the Trilemma</a>.  In this post Joe Carter undertakes to defend the trilemma, a much maligned and yet much used argument.</p>
	<p>First let me quote:</p>
	<blockquote><p>
Philosopher Peter Kreeft considers the trilemma to be the “most important argument in Christian apologetics.<br />
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		<title>Literal Belief is not the Only Belief</title>
		<link>http://henrysthreads.com/2006/07/literal-belief-is-not-the-only-belief/</link>
		<comments>http://henrysthreads.com/2006/07/literal-belief-is-not-the-only-belief/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Jul 2006 22:17:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Henry Neufeld</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Bible Study]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Biblical Inspiration]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[End Times]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[New Testament]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Revelation]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.energionpubs.com/wordpress/?p=270</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[	<p>Newsweek currently has an interview with Tim LaHaye in which he discusses current events in the middle east and their relationship to the end times.  I find myself in pretty nearly complete disagreement with LaHaye on his interpretation of Revelation, but that should be no surprise to anyone.  But he emphasizes one point in his interview that I think needs to be examined, and that&#8217;s the attempt to interpret things literally whenever possible.</p>
	<p>When the interviewer asks him about Biblical scholars who might disagree with his viewpoint, he says:</p>
	<p>
These are usually liberal theologians that don’t believe the Bible literally.
</p>
	<p>When asked whether Revelation should be interpreted as a polemic against Rome, he says:</p>
	<p>
That’s what they say. We believe that the Bible should be understood literally whenever possible. [Emphasis in original.]
</p>
	<p>Asked about support for Israel amongst Christians, he says:</p>
	<p>
I think those two things are related. Christians who take the Bible literally are generally supportive of Israel because God promises to bless those nations that are a blessing to Israel and curse those nations that are not. And the history of America bears that out.
</p>
	<p>It is clear that he regards the issue of whether one interprets the Bible literally as of central importance.  I agree with him.  But literal vs. non-literal is only one way of dividing Biblical interpreters, and he is not correct in suggesting that it is mostly liberals who would disagree with his position.  There are, in fact, numerous interpretations of Revelation that are supported by people who take a very conservative view of the inspiration of the Bible, and many of these are directly contradictory to LaHaye&#8217;s interpretation.</p>
	<p></p>
	<p>If you take simply the issue of timeline of events, you can see some of the substantial differences.  Three key events involved are 1) The Rapture, 2) The Second Coming of Jesus, and 3) Creation of the New Earth.  Two periods of times are proposed that might divide these events, the seven year tribulation period and the 1,000 year millenium.  Interpreters mix and match events.  Pre-tribulationist [using hyphens to emphasize prefixes] pre-milleniallists, like LaHaye propose a rapture at the beginning of the seven year tribulation, the second coming in the clouds of glory at the end of the tribulation, followed by the millenium, followed by the establishment of the new heavens and the new earth.  Mid-tribulationists move the rapture to the middle of the seven years, post-tribulationists to the end.  Pre-millenialist, post-tribulationsists would see the rapture and the second coming in the clouds as simultaneous.  Post-millenialists see the second coming in the clouds, the rapture, and the creation of the new heavens and new earth as simultaneous.  A-millenialists see the millenium as a symbolic period, and have significant scriptural support for such a view, though I personally doubt they&#8217;re right.</p>
	<p>I haven&#8217;t even begun to exhaust the possibilities, and there are probably people who hold one of the views I describe that will think I&#8217;ve missed it on some details, but those are the hazards of summarizing such views of interpretation.  The problem here is that these various elements come from different scriptures at different places and times, and it&#8217;s very difficult to tie them all together, thus honest interpreters can differ on how they should be combined.</p>
	<p>But not all problems of interpretation are due to combining texts from various locations and contexts.  Revelation 6:2 introduces a rider on a white horse with a bow.  The IVP Bible Background Commentary relates the image to the Parthians, who had mounted archers, and takes the white horse to mean conquest and war.  Matthew Henry, surely not a liberal, says that the rider on the white horse is Jesus Christ.  The Wycliffe Bible Commentary, citing Thomas F. Torrance, provides an identification with the antichrist.  Surely just these three interpretations, all from conservative commentators, suffice to show that one cannot be as confident of a single interpreation as LaHaye is.</p>
	<p>It&#8217;s always easy to be convinced of an interpretation of Revelation, provided that one studies only that one interpretation, does not look too critically at the text itself, doesn&#8217;t ask too many &#8220;why&#8221; questions, and avoids reading other people&#8217;s interpretations that often will seem just as convincing when seen independently.</p>
	


	<p>All of this avoids a more important question of precisely what it means to &#8220;interpret literally.&#8221;  I have personally encountered quite a number of different interpretations from people who claimed literal interpretation.  In terms of Revelation, &#8220;literally&#8221; often seems to mean taking even obviously symbolic numbers as literal values.  The number 144,000, 12 X 12 X 1000 cries out for a symbolic reading, as do various groupings of seven, and the millenium itself.  &#8220;Literal&#8221; can mean taking John&#8217;s visions as actual viewings of modern vehicles.  But really understanding Revelation, something I don&#8217;t claim to do, needs to begin by understanding that our language is symbolic and the symbols are separated by different distances from any concrete meaning.  This means that in Revelation, which is a vision, we can expect to be distanced from the literal meaning, often by layers of symbols.  This doesn&#8217;t mean that Revelation can mean just anything, but it does mean that any simple principle, such as LaHaye&#8217;s idea of taking it literally whenever possible, is likely to mislead.  One will be equally wrong whether one takes something too literally or too figuratively.  The idea is to discover what the writer intended.</p>
	


	<p>In my own study guide on Revelation, rather than proposing a timeline of the end, I suggest a way of looking at the book and getting spiritual lessons.  There are a number of good commentaries.  I believe the best one for the lay student is Ben Witherington&#8217;s Revelation in the New Cambridge Bible Commentary series.  Witherington fairly examples multiple views and helps the serious student sort through the evidence.</p>
	<p>LaHaye&#8217;s greatest error, in my view, is in implying that &#8221; . . . liberal theologians that don’t believe the Bible literally.&#8221;  This is wrong in two ways:  1)  It is not only liberal theologians who take many Biblical passages figuratively, and 2) It is not only those who don&#8217;t take the Bible literally who will disagree with some of LaHaye&#8217;s interpretations.</p>
	
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]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Newsweek currently has an <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14083809/site/newsweek/">interview with Tim LaHaye</a> in which he discusses current events in the middle east and their relationship to the end times.  I find myself in pretty nearly complete disagreement with LaHaye on his interpretation of Revelation, but that should be no surprise to anyone.  But he emphasizes one point in his interview that I think needs to be examined, and that&#8217;s the attempt to interpret things literally whenever possible.</p>
	<p>When the interviewer asks him about Biblical scholars who might disagree with his viewpoint, he says:</p>
	<blockquote><p>
These are usually liberal theologians that don’t believe the Bible literally.
</p></blockquote>
	<p>When asked whether Revelation should be interpreted as a polemic against Rome, he says:</p>
	<blockquote><p>
That’s what they say. <em>We</em> believe that the Bible should be understood literally whenever possible. [Emphasis in original.]
</p></blockquote>
	<p>Asked about support for Israel amongst Christians, he says:</p>
	<blockquote><p>
I think those two things are related. Christians who take the Bible literally are generally supportive of Israel because God promises to bless those nations that are a blessing to Israel and curse those nations that are not. And the history of America bears that out.
</p></blockquote>
	<p>It is clear that he regards the issue of whether one interprets the Bible literally as of central importance.  I agree with him.  But literal vs. non-literal is only one way of dividing Biblical interpreters, and he is not correct in suggesting that it is mostly liberals who would disagree with his position.  There are, in fact, numerous interpretations of Revelation that are supported by people who take a very conservative view of the inspiration of the Bible, and many of these are directly contradictory to LaHaye&#8217;s interpretation.</p>
	<p><span id="more-270"></span></p>
	<p>If you take simply the issue of timeline of events, you can see some of the substantial differences.  Three key events involved are 1) The Rapture, 2) The Second Coming of Jesus, and 3) Creation of the New Earth.  Two periods of times are proposed that might divide these events, the seven year tribulation period and the 1,000 year millenium.  Interpreters mix and match events.  Pre-tribulationist [using hyphens to emphasize prefixes] pre-milleniallists, like LaHaye propose a rapture at the beginning of the seven year tribulation, the second coming in the clouds of glory at the end of the tribulation, followed by the millenium, followed by the establishment of the new heavens and the new earth.  Mid-tribulationists move the rapture to the middle of the seven years, post-tribulationists to the end.  Pre-millenialist, post-tribulationsists would see the rapture and the second coming in the clouds as simultaneous.  Post-millenialists see the second coming in the clouds, the rapture, and the creation of the new heavens and new earth as simultaneous.  A-millenialists see the millenium as a symbolic period, and have significant scriptural support for such a view, though I personally doubt they&#8217;re right.</p>
	<p>I haven&#8217;t even begun to exhaust the possibilities, and there are probably people who hold one of the views I describe that will think I&#8217;ve missed it on some details, but those are the hazards of summarizing such views of interpretation.  The problem here is that these various elements come from different scriptures at different places and times, and it&#8217;s very difficult to tie them all together, thus honest interpreters can differ on how they should be combined.</p>
	<p>But not all problems of interpretation are due to combining texts from various locations and contexts.  Revelation 6:2 introduces a rider on a white horse with a bow.  The IVP Bible Background Commentary relates the image to the Parthians, who had mounted archers, and takes the white horse to mean conquest and war.  Matthew Henry, surely not a liberal, says that the rider on the white horse is Jesus Christ.  The Wycliffe Bible Commentary, citing Thomas F. Torrance, provides an identification with the antichrist.  Surely just these three interpretations, all from conservative commentators, suffice to show that one cannot be as confident of a single interpreation as LaHaye is.</p>
	<p>It&#8217;s always easy to be convinced of an interpretation of Revelation, provided that one studies only that one interpretation, does not look too critically at the text itself, doesn&#8217;t ask too many &#8220;why&#8221; questions, and avoids reading other people&#8217;s interpretations that often will seem just as convincing when seen independently.</p>
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	<p>All of this avoids a more important question of precisely what it means to &#8220;interpret literally.&#8221;  I have personally encountered quite a number of different interpretations from people who claimed literal interpretation.  In terms of Revelation, &#8220;literally&#8221; often seems to mean taking even obviously symbolic numbers as literal values.  The number 144,000, 12 X 12 X 1000 cries out for a symbolic reading, as do various groupings of seven, and the millenium itself.  &#8220;Literal&#8221; can mean taking John&#8217;s visions as actual viewings of modern vehicles.  But really understanding Revelation, something I don&#8217;t claim to do, needs to begin by understanding that our language is symbolic and the symbols are separated by different distances from any concrete meaning.  This means that in Revelation, which is a vision, we can expect to be distanced from the literal meaning, often by layers of symbols.  This doesn&#8217;t mean that Revelation can mean just anything, but it does mean that any simple principle, such as LaHaye&#8217;s idea of taking it literally whenever possible, is likely to mislead.  One will be equally wrong whether one takes something too literally or too figuratively.  The idea is to discover what the writer intended.</p>
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	<p>In my own study guide on Revelation, rather than proposing a timeline of the end, I suggest a way of looking at the book and getting spiritual lessons.  There are a number of good commentaries.  I believe the best one for the lay student is Ben Witherington&#8217;s <a href="http://energion.com/books/ene_item.php?asin=0521000688">Revelation</a> in the New Cambridge Bible Commentary series.  Witherington fairly examples multiple views and helps the serious student sort through the evidence.</p>
	<p>LaHaye&#8217;s greatest error, in my view, is in implying that &#8221; . . . liberal theologians that don’t believe the Bible literally.&#8221;  This is wrong in two ways:  1)  It is not only liberal theologians who take many Biblical passages figuratively, and 2) It is not only those who don&#8217;t take the Bible literally who will disagree with some of LaHaye&#8217;s interpretations.</p>
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	<li><a href="http://henrysthreads.com/2005/09/scale-from-literal-to-figurative/" rel="bookmark" class="crp_title">Scale from Literal to Figurative</a></li>
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		<title>First Reaction to &#8216;The Scriptures&#8217; Bible Translation</title>
		<link>http://henrysthreads.com/2006/05/first-reaction-to-the-scriptures-bible-translation/</link>
		<comments>http://henrysthreads.com/2006/05/first-reaction-to-the-scriptures-bible-translation/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2006 19:35:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Henry Neufeld</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Bible Translation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Hebrew Bible]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[New Testament]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.energionpubs.com/wordpress/?p=205</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[ <p>Someone kindly e-mailed me a question about this Bible version, so I decided to take a look for myself. This is just a preliminary look, but you can find my notes at The Scriptures, and you can compare my results on this version with others using my Bible Translation Selection Tool.</p> <p>I would say [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Someone kindly e-mailed me a question about this Bible version, so I decided to take a look for myself.  This is just a preliminary look, but you can find my notes at <a href="http://energion.com/books/bibles/enebvdetail.php?version=TS">The Scriptures</a>, and you can compare my results on this version with others using my <a href="http://energion.com/books/bibles/eneversion.php">Bible Translation Selection Tool</a>.</p>
	<p>I would say that this version is a specialty Bible, specifically aimed at the Messianic Jewish audience, and those gentile believers who have a strong interest in it.  The extremely literal style, and the use of transliterated Hebrew names, as well as the tetragrammaton and the Hebrew version of the name of Jesus, printed in Hebrew characters, will probably drive away many other users.</p>
	<p>One very positive point is that the translators/publishers are very straightforward about just what they are trying to do.  You can read their own preface to the translation at <a href="http://isr-messianic.org/index.shtml">Institute for Scripture Research</a>.  If you read their list of features and think you will like it, very probably you will.  I do hope to spend some more time with this version, as it has interesting characteristics.  It would be nice to work through a few chapters and critique them in detail.  I&#8217;ll try to do that as I have time.</p>
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		<title>Revelation:  Progressive or Continuous?</title>
		<link>http://henrysthreads.com/2006/05/revelation-progressive-or-continuous/</link>
		<comments>http://henrysthreads.com/2006/05/revelation-progressive-or-continuous/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 May 2006 23:48:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Henry Neufeld</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Bible Study]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Biblical Inerrancy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Biblical Inspiration]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Christianity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Hebrew Bible]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Isaiah]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[New Testament]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.energionpubs.com/wordpress/?p=189</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[ <p>Working on the book of Hebrews over on my Participatory Bible Study blog has led me to do some additional thinking about revelation or inspiration, and how it functions. One of the key claims of the book of Hebrews is that Jesus is a greater revelation than that provided by the Torah. In order [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Working on the book of Hebrews over on my <a href="http://hneufeld.com/biblestudy">Participatory Bible Study</a> blog has led me to do some additional thinking about revelation or inspiration, and how it functions.  One of the key claims of the book of Hebrews is that Jesus is a greater revelation than that provided by the Torah.  In order to support this claim, he has to first establish that revelation is in some sense progressive, though he does not develop a doctrine of progressive revelation, but rather establishes that a new, greater revelation can supercede an earlier one.</p>
	<p>This is a key difference between Christianity and Judaism.  Judaism sees the Torah as the ultimate revelation, and everything that follows is less authoritative.  The idea of something appearing that would supercede the Torah is pretty much anathema.  It is typical of later religions to make a claim that their own newer revelation is greater than what has gone before.  For Christianity, it&#8217;s Jesus and the New Testament, but then many Christians want to claim that revelation has ceased.  For Islam (or at least the vast majority of it), the Qur&#8217;an is the final revelation, and cannot be superceded.  It&#8217;s finally the perfect thing.</p>
	<p>But Christians divide on this point, some believing in one form or another of continuing revelation, while others believe that revelation ceased with the age of the apostles.  Amongst Christians liberals and charismatics tend to see revelation as continuing, while the reformed movement and those related to it see revelation as complete with the Bible.  There are a number of special cases, such as the Roman Catholic church and the concept ofthe &#8220;magisterium.&#8221;  Technically, this is not continuing revelation, but in effect, it certainly gives that appearance.  The Latter Day Saints have their living apostles who can bring out new revelation.</p>
	<p>I grew up as Seventh-day Adventist, and one of the key controversies between SDAs and the rest of the Christian community is over Ellen White.  Can you have a modern prophet, and how does this relate to scripture?  Here again I think there is a difference in the way things are expressed and the way they are put into practice.  My experience was that many Adventists used the writings of Ellen White as though they were scripture, no matter how church doctrine was stated.  But I don&#8217;t think SDAs are alone on this issue.  The place of the prophetic movement in charismatic and pentecostal churches is very similar and I see some of the same things being done either with words from the Lord, visions, and writings.  Some conversation here between modern charismatics and Seventh-day Adventists might be valuable.  I have often wondered how Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Ezekiel would fare if we had as detailed a record of their lives, along with copies of every letter they ever wrote.  Fortunately or unfortunately we don&#8217;t get to compare the first draft of Jeremiah with the second, and attempts at a chronology of his message are often quite speculative.</p>
	<p>So let me ask first whether revelation is progressive.  I think &#8220;progressive&#8221; is a terribly dangerous word.  In biology, evolution is often described as a progress from simple to complex, primitive to modern, with &#8220;modern&#8221; defined as &#8220;better.&#8221;  As time goes forward some suppose that organisms become better adapted to their environment, so that we have a constant movement toward perfection.  But if you read descriptions of evolution by actual biologists, this picture doesn&#8217;t seem to work quite as well.  One can say for certain that variety has generally increased, i.e. there is more now than there was in the Cambrian period, but none of the other claims I mentioned can be made with certainty.  &#8220;More complex&#8221; may mean <i>less</i> adapted, and thus natural selection would select for simplicity.  The environment changes as well, so one cannot be certain that we&#8217;re always moving to better adaptation.</p>
	<p>Why bring biological evolution in here?  Simply because progressive revelation is often compared to biological evolution, often in a negative sense.  It&#8217;s part of the &#8220;applying evolution to everything.&#8221;  Well, one can certain apply some evolutionary concepts to anything that changes, but that&#8217;s not really the issue here.  &#8220;Progressive revelation&#8221; has gotten tangled with the same types of misunderstandings that are involved in biological evolution.  First, it is assumed that any new revelation must automatically supercede an older revelation.  Second, it is assumed that as time goes on the revelation we have in our possession will be better and better, i.e. that we will become closer and closer to the truth about God.</p>
	<p>Just as the inevitable progress of biological evolution does not seem so well founded, and just as adaptation can go on for many millions of years without any assurance that anything actually gets 100% adapted, so I see little reason to assume that revelation will be progressive in either of those senses.  What I personally hear from the Lord is more adapted to my circumstances.  A current revelation to a church community will be better adapted to their time and their place, but because we are imperfect people, we will always have problems fully comprehending that revelation.  A perfect revelation cannot be 100% adapted to imperfect recipients.</p>
	<p>But my prior paragraph could easily be misunderstood.  The biological analogy breaks down.  The revelation is not, in fact, adapting itself.  Rather, the revelation is coming to different people, in different circumstances, at different times, and in different ways.  It has always been that way.  We can refine our understanding, but again, because we are imperfect, there is no guarantee that we are always getting better.  We can <i>hope</i> we are, but we cannot be certain.  The next generation could look back at our time and laugh, just as many of us laugh at a prior time.</p>
	<p>I think that God is continually revealing himself, continually speaking.  We hear with varied clarity.  In scripture and established traditions, we take those things that have been heard, confirmed, and reaffirmed at many times and in many places.  What Isaiah said is not necessarily better than what someone hears from the Lord in their morning devotions.  But Isaiah&#8217;s words have been used and tested repeatedly by many people over a long period of our tradition, and so have been accepted as of genuine, general value over a wide geographic area and over a broad range of times and places.  The fact that his book is scripture is a definition of the community that accepts it, not a simple derivation from the nature of the content.</p>
	<p>I know there will be those who are disturbed.  I am overcome by delusions of grandeur, and am receiving revelations of the quality and value of those of the prophet Isaiah.  [Pause for effect <img src='http://henrysthreads.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> ]  Well, no, I&#8217;m not.  But if God speaks to me, and if I hear correctly, the words of God are just as true whispered in my ear as in anybody else&#8217;s.   And of course they are just as true whispered in anybody else&#8217;s ear, including the ear of someone I despise, as they are in mine.</p>
	<p>I have more options to test these words now because I have scripture, as defined by my community, and I can even dabble in scripture as defined by other communities just to check things out.  This increase in quantity and variety gives me an advantage.  One pictures Abraham, as tradition suggests dealing with idols as was the family business, and suddenly addressed by God.  &#8220;Get out of here!  Go somewhere that I&#8217;ll show you!&#8221;  Abraham has very little to go on.  Scripture doesn&#8217;t exist yet, and won&#8217;t for centuries.  He simply has to decide whether to accept what the voice says (presumably based on the patriarchal tradition, but do <i>you</i> want to decide on God&#8217;s voice based on <i>your</i> family tradition?) or not.  I have it easier.  I have a community; I&#8217;m not about to found one.  I have other people who at least claim to hear God speak, though this is often more of a hindrance than otherwise.  There&#8217;s more variety.</p>
	<p>But fundamentally God speaking is God speaking, and I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s getting better or worse.  We just have more instances of it to study.  So I reject the term &#8220;progressive&#8221; and prefer &#8220;continuous.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>Priesthood, Sacrifice, and Christian Theology</title>
		<link>http://henrysthreads.com/2006/05/priesthood-sacrifice-and-christian-theology/</link>
		<comments>http://henrysthreads.com/2006/05/priesthood-sacrifice-and-christian-theology/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 May 2006 02:19:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Henry Neufeld</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Administrative]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Bible Study]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Christianity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[New Testament]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.energionpubs.com/wordpress/?p=187</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[ <p>I want to call the attention of the readers of this blog to some posts I&#8217;m starting in the Participatory Bible Study blog. I&#8217;m looking at the nature of priesthood and sacrifice in connection with views of the atonement. This portion of my blogging through the book of Hebrews will take me a number [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I want to call the attention of the readers of this blog to some posts I&#8217;m starting in the <a href="http://hneufeld.com/biblestudy">Participatory Bible Study</a> blog.  I&#8217;m looking at the nature of priesthood and sacrifice in connection with views of the atonement.  This portion of my blogging through the book of Hebrews will take me a number of entries, and I will only point to them once here.  For those interested in such issues as the substitutionary atonement, particularly penal substitutionary atonement, and how this compares with other views may find that series interesting.</p>
	<p>The sub-series begins with <a href=http://www.participatorystudyseries.com/biblestudy/?p=13">What is a Priest?</a>.</p>
	<p><strong>Admin note:</strong>  I&#8217;m going to be out of town over the weekend teaching a weekend discipleship seminar.  If any comments get stuck in moderation, they&#8217;ll probably be stuck until I return.</p>
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		<title>Cute Bunny Rabbits, Eggs, and Resurrection</title>
		<link>http://henrysthreads.com/2006/04/cute-bunny-rabbits-eggs-and-resurrection/</link>
		<comments>http://henrysthreads.com/2006/04/cute-bunny-rabbits-eggs-and-resurrection/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Apr 2006 02:16:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Henry Neufeld</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Bible Study]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Christianity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[New Testament]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Uncategorized]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.energionpubs.com/wordpress/?p=171</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[ <p>Is there a resurrection in your future? In your near future?</p> <p>Often concerned Christians complain about the pagan background of Easter, and such practices as Easter eggs, bunny rabbits, and all the signs of spring. Pagan religions in many countries have celebrated spring and the new life that it represents. Fall and spring festivals [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Is there a resurrection in your future?  In your near future?</p>
	<p>Often concerned Christians complain about the pagan background of Easter, and such practices as Easter eggs, bunny rabbits, and all the signs of spring.  Pagan religions in many countries have celebrated spring and the new life that it represents.  Fall and spring festivals celebrate the cycle of life as we know it.  I believe there is something very appropriate in placing the Christian celebration of the resurrection at the time of the spring, and I am even pretty happy with some of the pagan connections.</p>
	<p>Christian easter both reaffirms and transforms the idea generally behind spring festivals.  (I&#8217;m not trying to make a connection with any particular festival here; I&#8217;m just looking at spring festivals in general.)  We celebrate on the one hand that God does renew things on a regular basis.  There may be valleys in our lives, but there are also mountaintops, and if we&#8217;re traveling with God, we know that the mountaintops will follow the valleys without fail.  For every trial there&#8217;s a potential victory.  We live in a world of death, but at the same time a world of life.</p>
	<p>As Christians we often look down on those pagan religions that emphasize fertility.  Stories of sexual orgies and perversions help foster that attitude.  But the elements of excess and perversion are just that&#8211;a perversion of something that God made and that God said was good.  Human sexuality and reproduction are to be celebrated.  Why?  Because they provide us with the best example of God&#8217;s life giving power placed in our own hands.  The passion of a husband for his wife, or a wife for her husband and the response of one to the other provide the greatest metaphor of God&#8217;s passion for his people and our response to him.  It is not that sex is dirty without the metaphor; it is God&#8217;s gift of life and of passion.  Try reading Song of Solomon as a love story.  Don&#8217;t worry about any spirituality; just read it as passionate poetry and enjoy it.  It is that passion that represents God&#8217;s desire to commune with you, to be intimate with you, and to renew your life.</p>
	<p>At the same time the resurrection transforms the whole idea of a spring festival.  In many ancient religions there was an endless cycle of celebrations or commemorations of the changing of the seasons with no expectation that humanity was going anywhere. The resurrection transforms that.  We are not in an endless cycle; God has a plan!  We&#8217;re going somewhere.  That&#8217;s the central message of Easter.  We cannot have Easter without first going through Good Friday.  The trial came first.  But the cross would be a symbol of death if it was not followed by Easter.  The resurrection breaks the cycle and brings life.</p>
	<p>So enjoy the cute fluffy bunnies, and eat the chocolate easter eggs.  There&#8217;s a resurrection in your future!</p>
	<div id="crp_related">
<h2>Related Posts:</h2>
	<ul>
<li><a href="http://henrysthreads.com/2008/03/happy-easter/" rel="bookmark" class="crp_title">Happy Easter!</a></li>
	<li><a href="http://henrysthreads.com/2007/04/easter-blogging/" rel="bookmark" class="crp_title">Easter Blogging</a></li>
	<li><a href="http://henrysthreads.com/2005/12/birth-to-resurrection/" rel="bookmark" class="crp_title">Birth to Resurrection</a></li>
	<li><a href="http://henrysthreads.com/2009/04/stuck-on-silent-saturday/" rel="bookmark" class="crp_title">Stuck on Silent Saturday?</a></li>
	<li><a href="http://henrysthreads.com/2007/04/committed-christian-seeks-secular-society/" rel="bookmark" class="crp_title">Committed Christian Seeks Secular Society</a></li>
	<li>Powered by <a href="http://ajaydsouza.com/wordpress/plugins/contextual-related-posts/">Contextual Related Posts</a></li>
</ul>
</div>
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		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Transforming the Cross</title>
		<link>http://henrysthreads.com/2006/04/transforming-the-cross/</link>
		<comments>http://henrysthreads.com/2006/04/transforming-the-cross/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Apr 2006 13:14:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Henry Neufeld</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Books]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Christianity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[New Testament]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.energionpubs.com/wordpress/?p=170</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[ <p>[The following Good Friday meditation is extracted and slightly adapted from my book Not Ashamed of the Gospel: Confessions of a Liberal Charismatic.]</p> <p>Historically, the shame was in worshipping a convicted and executed criminal, calling him God and following his teachings. Very few people doubt that Jesus died, and that he was executed by [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>[The following Good Friday meditation is extracted and slightly adapted from my book <a href="http://www.energionpubs.com/ep_detail.php?sku=1893729370">Not Ashamed of the Gospel:  Confessions of a Liberal Charismatic</a>.]</p>
	<p>Historically, the shame was in worshipping a convicted and executed criminal, calling him God and following his teachings.  Very few people doubt that Jesus died, and that he was executed by the barbaric method of crucifixion.  Raised from the dead, alive today<br />
<div id="crp_related">
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	<ul>
<li><a href="http://henrysthreads.com/2005/12/birth-to-resurrection/" rel="bookmark" class="crp_title">Birth to Resurrection</a></li>
	<li><a href="http://henrysthreads.com/2007/05/being-a-passionate-moderate/" rel="bookmark" class="crp_title">Being a Passionate Moderate</a></li>
	<li><a href="http://henrysthreads.com/2012/01/the-cross-is-an-offense-today/" rel="bookmark" class="crp_title">The Cross is an Offense Today</a></li>
	<li><a href="http://henrysthreads.com/2007/04/special-price-on-not-ashamed-of-the-gospel/" rel="bookmark" class="crp_title">Special Price on Not Ashamed of the Gospel</a></li>
	<li><a href="http://henrysthreads.com/2009/04/stuck-on-silent-saturday/" rel="bookmark" class="crp_title">Stuck on Silent Saturday?</a></li>
	<li>Powered by <a href="http://ajaydsouza.com/wordpress/plugins/contextual-related-posts/">Contextual Related Posts</a></li>
</ul>
</div>
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		<item>
		<title>Witness without being a Pest</title>
		<link>http://henrysthreads.com/2006/04/witness-without-being-a-pest/</link>
		<comments>http://henrysthreads.com/2006/04/witness-without-being-a-pest/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Apr 2006 20:06:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Henry Neufeld</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Christianity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Intelligent Design]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[New Testament]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Prayer]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.energionpubs.com/wordpress/?p=164</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[	<p>Over on Philosoraptor, Carol Roper has an open letter to theists entitled Sick and Tired of God Talk.  Carol talks about how tired she is of various standard questions from theists, general theists who want to convert her, and in this country one would assume mostly Christian theists.  Carol is an adamant atheist, and she finds these people and their words and behavior annoying.</p>
	<p>I&#8217;ve been planning to write a response to this essay for more than a year, if I remember correctly, but I haven&#8217;t gotten around to it.  My response is not directed at Carol.  After all, she knows what annoys her and what doesn&#8217;t, and I&#8217;m not about to try to tell her what&#8217;s what.  But reading her article suggested some things that Christians do that I think are quite annoying and also counterproductive.</p>
	<p>There seems to be a divide between some Christians who want to push themselves on everyone in a frantic race to convert and bring into church membership as many people as possible.  &#8220;Jesus is coming back,&#8221; they think, &#8220;and he&#8217;s going to accidentally fry a bunch of people if I don&#8217;t get busy.&#8221;  The answer, they seem to think, is to work on the statistics as fast as possible.  Going door to door or randomly down the street and confronting people with what they think is the gospel is the only way they can see to really get into action and catch all those people before they go to hell.  Their level of panic is matched on the other side by people who are quite apathetic.  To hear them, Christianity is a dirty secret that one ought to keep as quiet as possible.  Jesus may be returning, but he&#8217;ll have to deal personally with the people, because these folks aren&#8217;t going to do anything.</p>
	<p>The first group supports their behavior by claiming that the gospel does offend people, and if they share the Good News with someone and they become offended, it’s not their problem.  They gave the warning!  But the question is, is it the gospel message that&#8217;s offending people, or is it you and your behavior?  Studies have shown that people who are persuaded to accept Jesus as their savior by means of manipulative monologue generally do not stay in the church, while those who enter the church through a relationship with an individual Christian normally do stay.  (My copy is loaned out right now, but you can find extensive discussion of this issue in Faith-Sharing, by Fox &#038; Morris.)</p>
	<p>I mention this because I think it shows that the frantic, manipulative method of witnessing is ineffective, even when measured by numbers.  I don&#8217;t think measuring by numbers is the appropriate way for a Christian to measure witnessing.  A witness is about being obedient to God.  The fruit of that may show in your challenge to others to behave better, to help others more, or to think more seriously about spiritual issues.  You may never see any fruit that you can hang on your church wall, so to speak.  Fruit is God&#8217;s measuring stick, not yours.  If we remembered this as Christians, we would cause far fewer problems.</p>
	<p>The usual excuse is simply that we are commanded to be witnesses and to make disciples, so how can we stop?  I am absolutely not telling anyone to stop witnessing.  In fact, I don&#8217;t think you can stop.  If you are a Christian, you are a witness.  The question is what kind of witness you are going to be.</p>
	<p>I&#8217;m also not saying that everyone on the street or knocking on a door is a pest.  There are many legitimate reasons to do this sort of thing.  If you are truly there to help, that&#8217;s one thing.  If you are there to teach them your theology, that&#8217;s another.</p>
	<p>A person who is so apathetic that most people don&#8217;t know of they are a Christian at all sends the message that Christianity is a sort of sideline that has a very low priority in their life.  Christians are, to borrow the words of Hitchhiker&#8217;s Guide to the Galaxy, &#8220;mostly harmless,&#8221; but they also aren&#8217;t much good for antything.</p>
	<p>A person who is frantic, and portrays panic, while bumbiling ineffectually from person to person sends the message that Christianity is a group of people in a panic, afraid that the world will end.  Not only that, they have a God who is not really prepared for the end.  These Christians portray their faith as something that is actually dangerous to the world, as they live their lives contrary to the command of Jesus, as though the world would end at any moment.  Ecology?  Who cares?  Jesus is coming.  Social Security headed for bankruptcy?  Don&#8217;t worry!  Jesus will come before I need it!</p>
	<p>So how does one manage to witness without being a pest?</p>
	<p>Start by living your faith.  Christianity worships God as creator and upholder of all that is (Hebrews 1:1-3), and also as a God who offers unearned favor to humanity, so much so as to cross the gap between infinity and the finite in Jesus Christ, who showed to us what God was like.  We needn&#8217;t be in a panic.</p>
	<p>Love your neighbor.  This does not mean to sneak your way into your neighbor&#8217;s heart so you can convert him.  It means that you build relationships because you love and value people.  People will know if you are insincere.  If you live up to your Christian principles and don&#8217;t make your Christianity either a secret or a wall between you and your friend, you are being a witness.</p>
	<p>Learn to speak other spiritual languages.  By this I mean to learn to talk about topics of interest in terms that the other person understands.  Even as a Christian I am offended when a politician uses his or her faith as lever to get my support.  I don&#8217;t know the sincerity of those faith claims.  But if a candidate, of any faith or none at all, has lived according to certain principles, that is something I can understand and test.  In communicating with a non-Christian, for example, WWJD (What Would Jesus Do?) is probably not the best question to ask.  But if you think that your Christian principles are also good principles, perhaps you can find a way to express those good ideas other than by claiming they are divine commands.  You are not denying Jesus just because you argue for his moral principles based on something other than the fact that he gave them as commands.</p>
	<p>Learn the basis for your faith.  This may not be the same as the basis for my faith.  What brought you to your position of faith?  Are you confident of that?  Your personal testimony is more important than any amount of logical argument.  If you are not an apologist by nature or training, you don&#8217;t have to behave like one.  (An apologist is one who answers questions about the Christian faith professionally.)  When people ask, answer for yourself.  That&#8217;s not waffling.  That&#8217;s just talking about what you know.</p>
	<p>Wait for questions.  If you live a life that is a good witness, inevitably people will ask something about your beliefs.  That is your opportunity to answer.  But remember it is not your opportunity to manipulate them.  You believe that your Christian experience is a good thing, and it&#8217;s natural for you to want to share.  When someone asks that means they want you to share.  Then is when it&#8217;s fine.</p>
	<p>Don&#8217;t resort to force.  Many Christians today are trying to get the government to do their job for them.  By this I mean by advocating state-sponsored, teacher led prayer in public schools, public displays of religious documents such as the Ten Commandments, introduction of intelligent design into the schools, and radical action against abortion and abortion clinics.  I think all of those things demonstrate that we don&#8217;t really believe in the power of the gospel shared with the power of the Holy Spirit to change lives.  We think we need to use force in society just as we sometimes use manipulative language and behavior in our personal witness.  Be a witness.  Then let God do his part.</p>
	<p>Think about it this way.  You might be a pest, rather than a witness if:</p>
	
	You knock on doors belonging to people you don&#8217;t know, but can&#8217;t name your own next door neighbors
	You know all the details of soteriology*, but don&#8217;t know where to get help for a homeless person
	You think salvation is equivalent to joining your church congregation
	You talk to people you despise so you can &#8220;save&#8221; them, and yet continue to despise them
	You&#8217;re sure your relationship with Jesus makes you more special than everybody else
	The only language you know how to speak is &#8220;church-ese&#8221;
	You set a mental timer counting down until you will break off a friendship if the stubborn jerk doesn&#8217;t accept Jesus
	You can&#8217;t carry on any conversation that isn&#8217;t about your religion
	You try to befriend someone only because you think you can get him to attend church
	
	<p>*If you have to ask what that is, you&#8217;re probably a pretty reasonable person to talk to!</p>
	
Related Posts:
	
Selling Christianity
	Silent Witness?
	Christians Behaving Vilely (Rhode Island Edition)
	Witnessing and Proselytizing
	On Christians Insulting Atheists
	Powered by Contextual Related Posts


]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Over on Philosoraptor, Carol Roper has an open letter to theists entitled <a href="http://www.philosoraptor.com/sickntired.html">Sick and Tired of God Talk</a>.  Carol talks about how tired she is of various standard questions from theists, general theists who want to convert her, and in this country one would assume mostly Christian theists.  Carol is an adamant atheist, and she finds these people and their words and behavior annoying.</p>
	<p>I&#8217;ve been planning to write a response to this essay for more than a year, if I remember correctly, but I haven&#8217;t gotten around to it.  My response is not directed at Carol.  After all, she knows what annoys her and what doesn&#8217;t, and I&#8217;m not about to try to tell her what&#8217;s what.  But reading her article suggested some things that Christians do that I think are quite annoying and also counterproductive.</p>
	<p>There seems to be a divide between some Christians who want to push themselves on everyone in a frantic race to convert and bring into church membership as many people as possible.  &#8220;Jesus is coming back,&#8221; they think, &#8220;and he&#8217;s going to accidentally fry a bunch of people if I don&#8217;t get busy.&#8221;  The answer, they seem to think, is to work on the statistics as fast as possible.  Going door to door or randomly down the street and confronting people with what they think is the gospel is the only way they can see to really get into action and catch all those people before they go to hell.  Their level of panic is matched on the other side by people who are quite apathetic.  To hear them, Christianity is a dirty secret that one ought to keep as quiet as possible.  Jesus may be returning, but he&#8217;ll have to deal personally with the people, because these folks aren&#8217;t going to do anything.</p>
	<p>The first group supports their behavior by claiming that the gospel does offend people, and if they share the Good News with someone and they become offended, it’s not their problem.  They gave the warning!  But the question is, is it the gospel message that&#8217;s offending people, or is it you and your behavior?  Studies have shown that people who are persuaded to accept Jesus as their savior by means of manipulative monologue generally do not stay in the church, while those who enter the church through a relationship with an individual Christian normally do stay.  (My copy is loaned out right now, but you can find extensive discussion of this issue in <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0881771589/henryneufeld">Faith-Sharing</a>, by Fox &#038; Morris.)</p>
	<p>I mention this because I think it shows that the frantic, manipulative method of witnessing is ineffective, even when measured by numbers.  I don&#8217;t think measuring by numbers is the appropriate way for a Christian to measure witnessing.  A witness is about being obedient to God.  The fruit of that may show in your challenge to others to behave better, to help others more, or to think more seriously about spiritual issues.  You may never see any fruit that you can hang on your church wall, so to speak.  Fruit is God&#8217;s measuring stick, not yours.  If we remembered this as Christians, we would cause far fewer problems.</p>
	<p>The usual excuse is simply that we are commanded to be witnesses and to make disciples, so how can we stop?  I am absolutely not telling anyone to stop witnessing.  In fact, I don&#8217;t think you <b>can</b> stop.  If you are a Christian, you <b>are</b> a witness.  The question is what kind of witness you are going to be.</p>
	<p>I&#8217;m also not saying that everyone on the street or knocking on a door is a pest.  There are many legitimate reasons to do this sort of thing.  If you are truly there to help, that&#8217;s one thing.  If you are there to teach them your theology, that&#8217;s another.</p>
	<p>A person who is so apathetic that most people don&#8217;t know of they are a Christian at all sends the message that Christianity is a sort of sideline that has a very low priority in their life.  Christians are, to borrow the words of <i>Hitchhiker&#8217;s Guide to the Galaxy</i>, &#8220;mostly harmless,&#8221; but they also aren&#8217;t much good for antything.</p>
	<p>A person who is frantic, and portrays panic, while bumbiling ineffectually from person to person sends the message that Christianity is a group of people in a panic, afraid that the world will end.  Not only that, they have a God who is not really prepared for the end.  These Christians portray their faith as something that is actually dangerous to the world, as they live their lives contrary to the command of Jesus, as though the world would end at any moment.  Ecology?  Who cares?  Jesus is coming.  Social Security headed for bankruptcy?  Don&#8217;t worry!  Jesus will come before I need it!</p>
	<p><b><i>So how does one manage to witness without being a pest?</i></b></p>
	<p><b>Start by living your faith.</b>  Christianity worships God as creator and upholder of all that is (Hebrews 1:1-3), and also as a God who offers unearned favor to humanity, so much so as to cross the gap between infinity and the finite in Jesus Christ, who showed to us what God was like.  We needn&#8217;t be in a panic.</p>
	<p><b>Love your neighbor.</b>  This does not mean to sneak your way into your neighbor&#8217;s heart so you can convert him.  It means that you build relationships because you love and value <b>people</b>.  People will know if you are insincere.  If you live up to your Christian principles and don&#8217;t make your Christianity either a secret or a wall between you and your friend, you are being a witness.</p>
	<p><b>Learn to speak other spiritual languages.</b>  By this I mean to learn to talk about topics of interest in terms that the other person understands.  Even as a Christian I am offended when a politician uses his or her faith as lever to get my support.  I don&#8217;t know the sincerity of those faith claims.  But if a candidate, of any faith or none at all, has <b>lived</b> according to certain principles, that is something I can understand and test.  In communicating with a non-Christian, for example, WWJD (What Would Jesus Do?) is probably not the best question to ask.  But if you think that your Christian principles are also <b>good</b> principles, perhaps you can find a way to express those good ideas other than by claiming they are divine commands.  You are not denying Jesus just because you argue for his moral principles based on something other than the fact that he gave them as commands.</p>
	<p><b>Learn the basis for your faith.</b>  This may not be the same as the basis for my faith.  What brought you to your position of faith?  Are you confident of that?  Your personal testimony is more important than any amount of logical argument.  If you are not an apologist by nature or training, you don&#8217;t have to behave like one.  (An apologist is one who answers questions about the Christian faith professionally.)  When people ask, answer for yourself.  That&#8217;s not waffling.  That&#8217;s just talking about what you know.</p>
	<p><b>Wait for questions.</b>  If you live a life that is a good witness, inevitably people will ask something about your beliefs.  That is your opportunity to answer.  But remember it is not your opportunity to manipulate them.  You believe that your Christian experience is a good thing, and it&#8217;s natural for you to want to share.  When someone <b>asks</b> that means <b>they</b> want you to share.  Then is when it&#8217;s fine.</p>
	<p><b>Don&#8217;t resort to force.</b>  Many Christians today are trying to get the government to do their job for them.  By this I mean by advocating state-sponsored, teacher led prayer in public schools, public displays of religious documents such as the Ten Commandments, introduction of intelligent design into the schools, and radical action against abortion and abortion clinics.  I think all of those things demonstrate that we don&#8217;t really believe in the power of the gospel shared with the power of the Holy Spirit to change lives.  We think we need to use force in society just as we sometimes use manipulative language and behavior in our personal witness.  <b>Be</b> a witness.  Then let God do his part.</p>
	<p>Think about it this way.  You might be a pest, rather than a witness if:</p>
	<ul>
	<li>You knock on doors belonging to people you don&#8217;t know, but can&#8217;t name your own next door neighbors</li>
	<li>You know all the details of soteriology<sup>*</sup>, but don&#8217;t know where to get help for a homeless person</li>
	<li>You think salvation is equivalent to joining your church congregation</li>
	<li>You talk to people you despise so you can &#8220;save&#8221; them, and yet continue to despise them</li>
	<li>You&#8217;re sure your relationship with Jesus makes you more special than everybody else</li>
	<li>The only language you know how to speak is &#8220;church-ese&#8221;</li>
	<li>You set a mental timer counting down until you will break off a friendship if the stubborn jerk doesn&#8217;t accept Jesus</li>
	<li>You can&#8217;t carry on any conversation that isn&#8217;t about your religion</li>
	<li>You try to befriend someone only because you think you can get him to attend church</li>
	</ul>
	<p><sup>*</sup>If you have to ask what that is, you&#8217;re probably a pretty reasonable person to talk to!</p>
	<div id="crp_related">
<h2>Related Posts:</h2>
	<ul>
<li><a href="http://henrysthreads.com/2007/08/selling-christianity/" rel="bookmark" class="crp_title">Selling Christianity</a></li>
	<li><a href="http://henrysthreads.com/2008/01/silent-witness/" rel="bookmark" class="crp_title">Silent Witness?</a></li>
	<li><a href="http://henrysthreads.com/2012/01/christians-behaving-vilely-rhode-island-edition/" rel="bookmark" class="crp_title">Christians Behaving Vilely (Rhode Island Edition)</a></li>
	<li><a href="http://henrysthreads.com/2006/09/witnessing-and-proselytizing/" rel="bookmark" class="crp_title">Witnessing and Proselytizing</a></li>
	<li><a href="http://henrysthreads.com/2011/12/on-christians-insulting-atheists/" rel="bookmark" class="crp_title">On Christians Insulting Atheists</a></li>
	<li>Powered by <a href="http://ajaydsouza.com/wordpress/plugins/contextual-related-posts/">Contextual Related Posts</a></li>
</ul>
</div>
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