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	<title>Comments on: Ben Witherington on Women in Ministry</title>
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	<link>http://henrysthreads.com/2009/10/ben-witherington-on-women-in-ministry/</link>
	<description>Thoughts on Religion in the World from a passionate, moderate, liberal charismatic Christian</description>
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		<title>By: Cheryl Schatz</title>
		<link>http://henrysthreads.com/2009/10/ben-witherington-on-women-in-ministry/comment-page-1/#comment-128852</link>
		<dc:creator>Cheryl Schatz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 00:40:53 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;PS: I’m a subscriber to your blog and appreciate your writing.&#8221;</p>
<p>Oh, thanks!  I didn&#8217;t know that Henry.  Glad to &#8220;meet&#8221; you outside my blog.</p>
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		<title>By: Henry Neufeld</title>
		<link>http://henrysthreads.com/2009/10/ben-witherington-on-women-in-ministry/comment-page-1/#comment-128851</link>
		<dc:creator>Henry Neufeld</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Oct 2009 13:24:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thanks for your comments.  I think that Ben Witherington&#039;s second argument is the overarching argument for all others.  If there was a trajectory going the other way, I think many egalitarian arguments would be in trouble.  As it is, I think he has nailed the direction of the law.

I do like your point on &quot;I do not permit.&quot;  That does sound like advice or directions to a particular congregation rather than the opening of a universal law.

PS:  I&#039;m a subscriber to your blog and appreciate your writing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your comments.  I think that Ben Witherington&#8217;s second argument is the overarching argument for all others.  If there was a trajectory going the other way, I think many egalitarian arguments would be in trouble.  As it is, I think he has nailed the direction of the law.</p>
<p>I do like your point on &#8220;I do not permit.&#8221;  That does sound like advice or directions to a particular congregation rather than the opening of a universal law.</p>
<p>PS:  I&#8217;m a subscriber to your blog and appreciate your writing.</p>
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		<title>By: Cheryl Schatz</title>
		<link>http://henrysthreads.com/2009/10/ben-witherington-on-women-in-ministry/comment-page-1/#comment-128850</link>
		<dc:creator>Cheryl Schatz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Oct 2009 09:18:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://energionpubs.com/wordpress/?p=2295#comment-128850</guid>
		<description>There are other very worthwhile arguments for women in ministry from the hard texts on women (my own web site www.strivetoenter.com/wim is filled with the arguments that are on my DVD on this subject) but the logical arguments such as Ben&#039;s about the trajectory going from freedom to more freedom rather then freedom to less freedom is very helpful too.  

Yet those who hold tightly to the complementarian view because of the hard passages on women are unlikely to reject that view merely from logical arguments.  They need to know what the hard passages mean and what they don&#039;t mean.

Did Paul create a brand new law that forbids women to teach men?  There was no such law in the Old Testament so either Paul created a new law or we have misunderstood Paul&#039;s prohibition to be universal when it is a specific situation at Ephesus.  There are so many problems if it is a brand new law.

No other law was spoken in the words of a man rather than God &quot;I am not permitting...&quot;
No other law is without a second witness to establish it.  1 Timothy 2:12 is never repeated or explained nor does any other apostle confirm a universal application.
Universal laws are given for universal application.  If God wanted to give a brand new law through Paul, why would He have Paul write it in a personal letter written to only one person rather than a letter written to an entire church?  Why would women from creation until Paul have freedom to teach without sanction by God and then suddenly it becomes a sin for women to teach men without a word of explanation by God as to why women had freedom before Paul?  How come this one law is one that satan loves?  He loves it when part of the body of Christ is stopped from using their God-given gifts for the benefit of others.  Satan&#039;s purpose is to silence all of us so he is especially pleased with a &quot;law&quot; that silences some.

There are more problems with the view that Paul created a brand new law that forces women to be prejudiced against their brothers in Christ and to refuse to teach them.  Those who believe that women are restricted by the hard passages should be willing to answers these problems.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are other very worthwhile arguments for women in ministry from the hard texts on women (my own web site <a href="http://www.strivetoenter.com/wim" rel="nofollow">http://www.strivetoenter.com/wim</a> is filled with the arguments that are on my DVD on this subject) but the logical arguments such as Ben&#8217;s about the trajectory going from freedom to more freedom rather then freedom to less freedom is very helpful too.  </p>
<p>Yet those who hold tightly to the complementarian view because of the hard passages on women are unlikely to reject that view merely from logical arguments.  They need to know what the hard passages mean and what they don&#8217;t mean.</p>
<p>Did Paul create a brand new law that forbids women to teach men?  There was no such law in the Old Testament so either Paul created a new law or we have misunderstood Paul&#8217;s prohibition to be universal when it is a specific situation at Ephesus.  There are so many problems if it is a brand new law.</p>
<p>No other law was spoken in the words of a man rather than God &#8220;I am not permitting&#8230;&#8221;<br />
No other law is without a second witness to establish it.  1 Timothy 2:12 is never repeated or explained nor does any other apostle confirm a universal application.<br />
Universal laws are given for universal application.  If God wanted to give a brand new law through Paul, why would He have Paul write it in a personal letter written to only one person rather than a letter written to an entire church?  Why would women from creation until Paul have freedom to teach without sanction by God and then suddenly it becomes a sin for women to teach men without a word of explanation by God as to why women had freedom before Paul?  How come this one law is one that satan loves?  He loves it when part of the body of Christ is stopped from using their God-given gifts for the benefit of others.  Satan&#8217;s purpose is to silence all of us so he is especially pleased with a &#8220;law&#8221; that silences some.</p>
<p>There are more problems with the view that Paul created a brand new law that forces women to be prejudiced against their brothers in Christ and to refuse to teach them.  Those who believe that women are restricted by the hard passages should be willing to answers these problems.</p>
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		<title>By: Henry Neufeld</title>
		<link>http://henrysthreads.com/2009/10/ben-witherington-on-women-in-ministry/comment-page-1/#comment-128848</link>
		<dc:creator>Henry Neufeld</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Oct 2009 01:07:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://energionpubs.com/wordpress/?p=2295#comment-128848</guid>
		<description>I can see how that would be the case.  It is useful to note that I&#039;m United Methodist as is Dr. Witherington.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can see how that would be the case.  It is useful to note that I&#8217;m United Methodist as is Dr. Witherington.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug Chaplin</title>
		<link>http://henrysthreads.com/2009/10/ben-witherington-on-women-in-ministry/comment-page-1/#comment-128847</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Chaplin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Oct 2009 23:32:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://energionpubs.com/wordpress/?p=2295#comment-128847</guid>
		<description>Interesting. I think we can agree on his argument 2. &lt;a href=&quot;http://clayboy.co.uk/2009/10/rescuing-priesthood-from-witheringtons-perfectly-clear-nt/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;I thought his argument 1 was poor&lt;/a&gt; but we do share very different denominational views.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting. I think we can agree on his argument 2. <a href="http://clayboy.co.uk/2009/10/rescuing-priesthood-from-witheringtons-perfectly-clear-nt/" rel="nofollow">I thought his argument 1 was poor</a> but we do share very different denominational views.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob MacDonald</title>
		<link>http://henrysthreads.com/2009/10/ben-witherington-on-women-in-ministry/comment-page-1/#comment-128846</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob MacDonald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Oct 2009 21:22:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://energionpubs.com/wordpress/?p=2295#comment-128846</guid>
		<description>There is a rather more sever reading against patriarchy in the long second article in &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.stjohnthedivine.bc.ca/eventpages/2009galilee/Galilee-Report-Full-With-Papers.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this &lt;/a&gt; PDF - you might enjoy it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a rather more sever reading against patriarchy in the long second article in <a href="http://www.stjohnthedivine.bc.ca/eventpages/2009galilee/Galilee-Report-Full-With-Papers.pdf" rel="nofollow">this </a> PDF &#8211; you might enjoy it.</p>
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