Comments on: What Can We Christians be Thinking? http://henrysthreads.com/2009/01/what-can-we-christians-be-thinking/ Thoughts on Religion in the World from a passionate, moderate, liberal charismatic Christian Tue, 15 May 2012 14:29:36 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Peter Kirk http://henrysthreads.com/2009/01/what-can-we-christians-be-thinking/comment-page-1/#comment-128480 Peter Kirk Wed, 07 Jan 2009 18:25:03 +0000 http://www.energionpubs.com/wordpress/?p=1798#comment-128480 Kyle, indeed it sounds like Rick Warren was making a sales pitch. But then it sounds like that in Acts 2, 13 etc when Peter and Paul offer forgiveness of sins and the Holy Spirit. If you are determined to filter everything you see through the paradigm that this might be "a gospel presentation in the form of a blatant sales pitch", then please be consistent in applying this to every preacher, ancient and modern, and not just to jump on bandwagon of criticising Rick Warren, who has become a convenient target because he dares to pray for Barack Obama. I agree that Warren probably doesn't have in mind genuinely having faith in Christ for a temporary period. Perhaps he is suggesting trusting Christ for healing and provision of one's needs. I accept that the money back offer is a gimmick. I'm sure what he mainly has in mind is that people should spend 60 days exploring what it means to be a Christian, not just intellectually in terms of finding out what the faith means, but also experientially in terms of living for a period as if one were a Christian, alongside true Christians. What better way to evangelise can you think of? Kyle, indeed it sounds like Rick Warren was making a sales pitch. But then it sounds like that in Acts 2, 13 etc when Peter and Paul offer forgiveness of sins and the Holy Spirit. If you are determined to filter everything you see through the paradigm that this might be “a gospel presentation in the form of a blatant sales pitch”, then please be consistent in applying this to every preacher, ancient and modern, and not just to jump on bandwagon of criticising Rick Warren, who has become a convenient target because he dares to pray for Barack Obama.

I agree that Warren probably doesn’t have in mind genuinely having faith in Christ for a temporary period. Perhaps he is suggesting trusting Christ for healing and provision of one’s needs. I accept that the money back offer is a gimmick. I’m sure what he mainly has in mind is that people should spend 60 days exploring what it means to be a Christian, not just intellectually in terms of finding out what the faith means, but also experientially in terms of living for a period as if one were a Christian, alongside true Christians. What better way to evangelise can you think of?

]]> By: Henry Neufeld http://henrysthreads.com/2009/01/what-can-we-christians-be-thinking/comment-page-1/#comment-128479 Henry Neufeld Wed, 07 Jan 2009 17:29:37 +0000 http://www.energionpubs.com/wordpress/?p=1798#comment-128479 It definitely sounded like that to me. I hoped to have my mind changed by getting the full transcript, but no such luck. It definitely sounded like that to me. I hoped to have my mind changed by getting the full transcript, but no such luck.

]]> By: Henry Neufeld http://henrysthreads.com/2009/01/what-can-we-christians-be-thinking/comment-page-1/#comment-128478 Henry Neufeld Wed, 07 Jan 2009 17:28:41 +0000 http://www.energionpubs.com/wordpress/?p=1798#comment-128478 Peter - I'm afraid I disagree. It looks very much <em>unlike</em> a testing period for catechumens who were testing to see if they could do it. I think the offer of "your money back" though obviously tongue in cheek, that suggests this is precisely what I said it was. Personally I think it was an unfortunate turn of phrase on Warren's part, but I think it was precisely the type of unfortunate slip that tends to misrepresent the reality of following Jesus. Peter – I’m afraid I disagree. It looks very much unlike a testing period for catechumens who were testing to see if they could do it. I think the offer of “your money back” though obviously tongue in cheek, that suggests this is precisely what I said it was.

Personally I think it was an unfortunate turn of phrase on Warren’s part, but I think it was precisely the type of unfortunate slip that tends to misrepresent the reality of following Jesus.

]]> By: Chika http://henrysthreads.com/2009/01/what-can-we-christians-be-thinking/comment-page-1/#comment-128475 Chika Wed, 07 Jan 2009 11:56:15 +0000 http://www.energionpubs.com/wordpress/?p=1798#comment-128475 In the public presentation of what the Christian faith is, we've completely lost the clue and the reality of christianity in biblical days. Sadly, what keeps flashing in my mind when I hear christians speak or act publicly in America is Ichabod - The glory has departed and they knew it not. We've reduced the vibrant, revolutionary faith Jesus brought to a pharisaic, moralistic religion. This seems more like living in the old testament than in the new. I guess it's not just the pharisees that struggle with assimilating the implications of Jesus' new order. We still quite can't grasp it. The good news is that God is still in control and there would always be a remnant, just as in past ages. However, they wouldn't be the loud ones, nor the acclaimed ones. In the public presentation of what the Christian faith is, we’ve completely lost the clue and the reality of christianity in biblical days.

Sadly, what keeps flashing in my mind when I hear christians speak or act publicly in America is Ichabod – The glory has departed and they knew it not.

We’ve reduced the vibrant, revolutionary faith Jesus brought to a pharisaic, moralistic religion. This seems more like living in the old testament than in the new. I guess it’s not just the pharisees that struggle with assimilating the implications of Jesus’ new order. We still quite can’t grasp it.

The good news is that God is still in control and there would always be a remnant, just as in past ages. However, they wouldn’t be the loud ones, nor the acclaimed ones.

]]> By: Kyle http://henrysthreads.com/2009/01/what-can-we-christians-be-thinking/comment-page-1/#comment-128474 Kyle Wed, 07 Jan 2009 02:08:43 +0000 http://www.energionpubs.com/wordpress/?p=1798#comment-128474 But Peter, being heavily swayed by PR types of thinking, Warren IS giving a gospel presentation in the form of a blatant sales pitch. How can people not, then, think of this in terms of consumerist gratification? (not to mention that I think actually trying to do this, i.e., really placing your trust fully in Christ for a 60 day trial, is probably psychologically impossible) And if they go into it thinking in terms of instant consumerist gratification, they will almost certainly reject it after 60 days precisely because it isn't an easy path. I agree that people rarely make an abrupt 180 degree turn to commit their lives to Christ, but just because it is a gradual process doesn't mean that it bears anything other than the very simplistic coincidence of timing to what Warren is selling. But Peter, being heavily swayed by PR types of thinking, Warren IS giving a gospel presentation in the form of a blatant sales pitch. How can people not, then, think of this in terms of consumerist gratification? (not to mention that I think actually trying to do this, i.e., really placing your trust fully in Christ for a 60 day trial, is probably psychologically impossible) And if they go into it thinking in terms of instant consumerist gratification, they will almost certainly reject it after 60 days precisely because it isn’t an easy path. I agree that people rarely make an abrupt 180 degree turn to commit their lives to Christ, but just because it is a gradual process doesn’t mean that it bears anything other than the very simplistic coincidence of timing to what Warren is selling.

]]> By: Peter Kirk http://henrysthreads.com/2009/01/what-can-we-christians-be-thinking/comment-page-1/#comment-128473 Peter Kirk Tue, 06 Jan 2009 21:45:05 +0000 http://www.energionpubs.com/wordpress/?p=1798#comment-128473 Rick Warren didn't say the 60 day trial would be easy! If taken seriously, it would be really hard, people agreeing to live a real Christian life even for two months. And this is not really so different from what the early church expected to enquirers to do (but the catechumenate could last a year or so before baptism) or what we now routinely ask people to do through the Alpha course. Surely the days are past when we expect unchurched people to commit their lives 100% to Christ on one night without even having a chance to explore what it is all about. So I applaud Warren's offer, and suggest he makes it into a new 60 Days or 40 Days book for enquirers. Rick Warren didn’t say the 60 day trial would be easy! If taken seriously, it would be really hard, people agreeing to live a real Christian life even for two months. And this is not really so different from what the early church expected to enquirers to do (but the catechumenate could last a year or so before baptism) or what we now routinely ask people to do through the Alpha course. Surely the days are past when we expect unchurched people to commit their lives 100% to Christ on one night without even having a chance to explore what it is all about. So I applaud Warren’s offer, and suggest he makes it into a new 60 Days or 40 Days book for enquirers.

]]> By: OD Today: 6 January 2009 (late edition) « Online Discernment Today http://henrysthreads.com/2009/01/what-can-we-christians-be-thinking/comment-page-1/#comment-128472 OD Today: 6 January 2009 (late edition) « Online Discernment Today Tue, 06 Jan 2009 20:17:51 +0000 http://www.energionpubs.com/wordpress/?p=1798#comment-128472 [...] Neufeld starts off talking about Rick Warren’s “try it for sixty days” quote, ends up telling Christians generally to “get over it.” “What can we Christians be [...] [...] Neufeld starts off talking about Rick Warren’s “try it for sixty days” quote, ends up telling Christians generally to “get over it.” “What can we Christians be [...]

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