<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Evolution as God&#8217;s Tool</title>
	<atom:link href="http://henrysthreads.com/2008/06/evolution-as-gods-tool/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://henrysthreads.com/2008/06/evolution-as-gods-tool/</link>
	<description>Thoughts on Religion in the World from a passionate, moderate, liberal charismatic Christian</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 21:02:45 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: spiritual intelligence</title>
		<link>http://henrysthreads.com/2008/06/evolution-as-gods-tool/comment-page-1/#comment-112636</link>
		<dc:creator>spiritual intelligence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 11:04:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.energionpubs.com/wordpress/?p=1383#comment-112636</guid>
		<description>[...]  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Martin LaBar</title>
		<link>http://henrysthreads.com/2008/06/evolution-as-gods-tool/comment-page-1/#comment-111159</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin LaBar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jun 2008 00:04:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.energionpubs.com/wordpress/?p=1383#comment-111159</guid>
		<description>Great phrase: &quot;. . . the universe is what it is, irrespective of what makes me feel better.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great phrase: &#8220;. . . the universe is what it is, irrespective of what makes me feel better.&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Peter Kirk</title>
		<link>http://henrysthreads.com/2008/06/evolution-as-gods-tool/comment-page-1/#comment-111098</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Kirk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jun 2008 21:55:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.energionpubs.com/wordpress/?p=1383#comment-111098</guid>
		<description>Henry, yes, you are right. I don&#039;t have the details to hand. But I know that there is a way of testing for pseudo-randomness as opposed to true randomness. A set of numbers are plotted in some kind of graph. A visible pattern appears on the graph for pseudo-random numbers, but not for truly random ones. More sophisticated pseudo-random number generators require more sophisticated techniques to detect, but they can be detected. I&#039;m sure this is important in cryptography e.g. to detect messages deliberately disguised as random noise. If there are currently pseudo-random series which (if long enough) cannot be detected as such, that is probably only a temporary matter until the next advance in detection methods. But I am by no means an expert in this.

On the other hand, I would expect that any divine intervention in the universe would appear, even to the most sophisticated human techniques, to be truly random.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Henry, yes, you are right. I don&#8217;t have the details to hand. But I know that there is a way of testing for pseudo-randomness as opposed to true randomness. A set of numbers are plotted in some kind of graph. A visible pattern appears on the graph for pseudo-random numbers, but not for truly random ones. More sophisticated pseudo-random number generators require more sophisticated techniques to detect, but they can be detected. I&#8217;m sure this is important in cryptography e.g. to detect messages deliberately disguised as random noise. If there are currently pseudo-random series which (if long enough) cannot be detected as such, that is probably only a temporary matter until the next advance in detection methods. But I am by no means an expert in this.</p>
<p>On the other hand, I would expect that any divine intervention in the universe would appear, even to the most sophisticated human techniques, to be truly random.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anna K.</title>
		<link>http://henrysthreads.com/2008/06/evolution-as-gods-tool/comment-page-1/#comment-111078</link>
		<dc:creator>Anna K.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jun 2008 13:28:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.energionpubs.com/wordpress/?p=1383#comment-111078</guid>
		<description>On physical life being risky and ephemeral -- repeatedly in the Bible, life and &#039;flesh&#039; is compared to grass and flowers, in that all soon wither away.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On physical life being risky and ephemeral &#8212; repeatedly in the Bible, life and &#8216;flesh&#8217; is compared to grass and flowers, in that all soon wither away.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: James Hanley</title>
		<link>http://henrysthreads.com/2008/06/evolution-as-gods-tool/comment-page-1/#comment-111035</link>
		<dc:creator>James Hanley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 13:12:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.energionpubs.com/wordpress/?p=1383#comment-111035</guid>
		<description>Henry,

Very thoughtful post. There&#039;s no doubt natural selection provides challenges to the received orthodox theologies, and it&#039;s quite interesting to watch someone try to work through the ideas rather than simply reject one or the other.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Henry,</p>
<p>Very thoughtful post. There&#8217;s no doubt natural selection provides challenges to the received orthodox theologies, and it&#8217;s quite interesting to watch someone try to work through the ideas rather than simply reject one or the other.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Henry Neufeld</title>
		<link>http://henrysthreads.com/2008/06/evolution-as-gods-tool/comment-page-1/#comment-111032</link>
		<dc:creator>Henry Neufeld</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 10:40:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.energionpubs.com/wordpress/?p=1383#comment-111032</guid>
		<description>Peter-pardon my math ignorance here, but it seems to me that what you say would imply that there would be a way to test and detect whether one was working with a pseudo-random generator, at least a percentage of cases.  IOW a pseudo-random number generator might pass for true randomness, but if certain [types of] patterns appeared one would know that it was pseudo-random.

Have I understood you correctly?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter-pardon my math ignorance here, but it seems to me that what you say would imply that there would be a way to test and detect whether one was working with a pseudo-random generator, at least a percentage of cases.  IOW a pseudo-random number generator might pass for true randomness, but if certain [types of] patterns appeared one would know that it was pseudo-random.</p>
<p>Have I understood you correctly?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Peter Kirk</title>
		<link>http://henrysthreads.com/2008/06/evolution-as-gods-tool/comment-page-1/#comment-111030</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Kirk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 09:55:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.energionpubs.com/wordpress/?p=1383#comment-111030</guid>
		<description>Larry, it is also possible to get genuine and intended patterns out of true randomness. That is a standard part of stochastic modelling in all kinds of engineering etc. True, most of the patterns can also be obtained from pseudo-randomness, but mixed with patterns from its not quite random nature.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Larry, it is also possible to get genuine and intended patterns out of true randomness. That is a standard part of stochastic modelling in all kinds of engineering etc. True, most of the patterns can also be obtained from pseudo-randomness, but mixed with patterns from its not quite random nature.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Henry Neufeld</title>
		<link>http://henrysthreads.com/2008/06/evolution-as-gods-tool/comment-page-1/#comment-111016</link>
		<dc:creator>Henry Neufeld</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 02:06:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.energionpubs.com/wordpress/?p=1383#comment-111016</guid>
		<description>Larry - I believe I understand your point, but I think I already stated something similar when I noted that God could intervene at that level without anyone being able to tell the difference.  That&#039;s not the same point as you&#039;re making, but it is compatible.

My choice to believe in randomness is more theological than scientific.  I think it&#039;s really impossible to tell whether there is true randomness in the sense in which I&#039;m using the word or not.  The alternative seems to me to be complete determinism, which is also quite possible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Larry &#8211; I believe I understand your point, but I think I already stated something similar when I noted that God could intervene at that level without anyone being able to tell the difference.  That&#8217;s not the same point as you&#8217;re making, but it is compatible.</p>
<p>My choice to believe in randomness is more theological than scientific.  I think it&#8217;s really impossible to tell whether there is true randomness in the sense in which I&#8217;m using the word or not.  The alternative seems to me to be complete determinism, which is also quite possible.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Larry B</title>
		<link>http://henrysthreads.com/2008/06/evolution-as-gods-tool/comment-page-1/#comment-111014</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 00:23:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.energionpubs.com/wordpress/?p=1383#comment-111014</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure I can point to an example of what you are referring to here Peter, but it&#039;s a tad tricky to even define randomness.  If you take a fair dice for example, you have no way to prove that a series of rolls from the dice is truly random.  It is equally probable that you will find a string of n 6&#039;s in a row (n being any integer number above 0) as it is to see a long string of non repeating numbers.  We might suspect that the dice isn&#039;t fair if we saw a long string of 6&#039;s, but it&#039;s not necessarily the case.  

So, in reality, we can only be statistically confident that something is random, and not certain.  Which to me presents a problem with Henry&#039;s ideas about randomness.  In my view the real problem is we can&#039;t actually confirm randomness within the bounds of mathematics and therefore arguing that evolution is or isn&#039;t a &quot;random&quot; process isn&#039;t really possible.  

So in short, within true randomness apparent patterns will develop and if something isn&#039;t random patterns will develop.  The question is are we the apparent patterns or the intended patterns.  I don&#039;t think it can be answered by inquiry into math and science.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure I can point to an example of what you are referring to here Peter, but it&#8217;s a tad tricky to even define randomness.  If you take a fair dice for example, you have no way to prove that a series of rolls from the dice is truly random.  It is equally probable that you will find a string of n 6&#8217;s in a row (n being any integer number above 0) as it is to see a long string of non repeating numbers.  We might suspect that the dice isn&#8217;t fair if we saw a long string of 6&#8217;s, but it&#8217;s not necessarily the case.  </p>
<p>So, in reality, we can only be statistically confident that something is random, and not certain.  Which to me presents a problem with Henry&#8217;s ideas about randomness.  In my view the real problem is we can&#8217;t actually confirm randomness within the bounds of mathematics and therefore arguing that evolution is or isn&#8217;t a &#8220;random&#8221; process isn&#8217;t really possible.  </p>
<p>So in short, within true randomness apparent patterns will develop and if something isn&#8217;t random patterns will develop.  The question is are we the apparent patterns or the intended patterns.  I don&#8217;t think it can be answered by inquiry into math and science.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Frank Hagan</title>
		<link>http://henrysthreads.com/2008/06/evolution-as-gods-tool/comment-page-1/#comment-110960</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank Hagan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 17:45:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.energionpubs.com/wordpress/?p=1383#comment-110960</guid>
		<description>Hi Henry ... love your blog, and appreciate your trackback to my blog on the same subject.  

Regarding the apparent randomness of evolution, I remember a football coach who used to have the first few plays of the game set, and the team would go onto the field and sequence through those plays just as the coach planned.   For the viewer, it seemed like the team was rushing to the scrimmage line and quickly running a play at random, without evidence of the intervention of the huddle.  But in fact the plan had been formulated for a series of plays off-field, in the locker room.  

God could have set all parameters, including all the variables and alternate outcomes, and then started the ball rolling.  I don&#039;t favor this view, personally, but I think it is worth considering.   (It reminds me of the Christian Deist view of the founders, in fact, which seems to fit the modern scientific world much more than our &quot;literalist tinged&quot; current thinking).  

There are some verses in the Hebrew scriptures that reflect the idea that God created evil as well as good (Isa. 45:7).  I&#039;ve heard this explained as necessary to provide a choice between two things to validate that man does indeed have free will.  But there is also a sense in which we attribute things to God simply because of His foreknowledge of it.  

Just as students choosing to  sit with others of their own race create de-facto segregation in the cafeteria, God allowing a thing to happen ultimately makes Him the author of it in a de-facto sense.  God can certainly intervene in the workings of the Universe, but does it so rarely that we call it miracle.  

Anyway, enough rambling.  I did want to chime in and let you know how much I appreciate your blog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Henry &#8230; love your blog, and appreciate your trackback to my blog on the same subject.  </p>
<p>Regarding the apparent randomness of evolution, I remember a football coach who used to have the first few plays of the game set, and the team would go onto the field and sequence through those plays just as the coach planned.   For the viewer, it seemed like the team was rushing to the scrimmage line and quickly running a play at random, without evidence of the intervention of the huddle.  But in fact the plan had been formulated for a series of plays off-field, in the locker room.  </p>
<p>God could have set all parameters, including all the variables and alternate outcomes, and then started the ball rolling.  I don&#8217;t favor this view, personally, but I think it is worth considering.   (It reminds me of the Christian Deist view of the founders, in fact, which seems to fit the modern scientific world much more than our &#8220;literalist tinged&#8221; current thinking).  </p>
<p>There are some verses in the Hebrew scriptures that reflect the idea that God created evil as well as good (Isa. 45:7).  I&#8217;ve heard this explained as necessary to provide a choice between two things to validate that man does indeed have free will.  But there is also a sense in which we attribute things to God simply because of His foreknowledge of it.  </p>
<p>Just as students choosing to  sit with others of their own race create de-facto segregation in the cafeteria, God allowing a thing to happen ultimately makes Him the author of it in a de-facto sense.  God can certainly intervene in the workings of the Universe, but does it so rarely that we call it miracle.  </p>
<p>Anyway, enough rambling.  I did want to chime in and let you know how much I appreciate your blog.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
<!-- WP Super Cache is installed but broken. The path to wp-cache-phase1.php in wp-content/advanced-cache.php must be fixed! -->