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	<title>Comments on: Why the Creation-Evolution Controversy is Important</title>
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	<link>http://henrysthreads.com/2007/09/why-the-creation-evolution-controversy-is-important/</link>
	<description>Thoughts on Religion in the World from a passionate, moderate, liberal charismatic Christian</description>
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		<title>By: Henry Neufeld</title>
		<link>http://henrysthreads.com/2007/09/why-the-creation-evolution-controversy-is-important/comment-page-1/#comment-69880</link>
		<dc:creator>Henry Neufeld</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Sep 2007 14:02:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.energionpubs.com/wordpress/?p=903#comment-69880</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
The idea that evidence and its interpretation is neutral is a fairly outmoded concept in the philosophy of science.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Of course, as demonstrated by your own comment, the idea of excluding the middle is not so outmoded.  My personal position is not at the extreme of believing the interpretation is totally neutral, nor do I believe it is totally predetermined.

Young earth creationists, and for that matter ID and old earth creationists to a lesser extent, use the tactic of attacking the validity of the scientific method to make their conclusions seem more plausible.  But when they try to get specific, it becomes clear that their own interpretations are almost totally predetermined.  They are the ones not open to new ideas and knowledge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>
The idea that evidence and its interpretation is neutral is a fairly outmoded concept in the philosophy of science.
</p></blockquote>
<p>Of course, as demonstrated by your own comment, the idea of excluding the middle is not so outmoded.  My personal position is not at the extreme of believing the interpretation is totally neutral, nor do I believe it is totally predetermined.</p>
<p>Young earth creationists, and for that matter ID and old earth creationists to a lesser extent, use the tactic of attacking the validity of the scientific method to make their conclusions seem more plausible.  But when they try to get specific, it becomes clear that their own interpretations are almost totally predetermined.  They are the ones not open to new ideas and knowledge.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Bartlett</title>
		<link>http://henrysthreads.com/2007/09/why-the-creation-evolution-controversy-is-important/comment-page-1/#comment-69603</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Bartlett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2007 05:23:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.energionpubs.com/wordpress/?p=903#comment-69603</guid>
		<description>You should check out the book &quot;The Myth of Religious Neutrality&quot; published by Notre Dame Press.

The idea that evidence and its interpretation is neutral is a fairly outmoded concept in the philosophy of science.  Another good read is Lakatos/Feyerabend&#039;s &quot;For and Against Method&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You should check out the book &#8220;The Myth of Religious Neutrality&#8221; published by Notre Dame Press.</p>
<p>The idea that evidence and its interpretation is neutral is a fairly outmoded concept in the philosophy of science.  Another good read is Lakatos/Feyerabend&#8217;s &#8220;For and Against Method&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Threads from Henry&#8217;s Web &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Barbarians? What Barbarians?</title>
		<link>http://henrysthreads.com/2007/09/why-the-creation-evolution-controversy-is-important/comment-page-1/#comment-69378</link>
		<dc:creator>Threads from Henry&#8217;s Web &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Barbarians? What Barbarians?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Sep 2007 20:13:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.energionpubs.com/wordpress/?p=903#comment-69378</guid>
		<description>[...] Olson responded to my post Why the Creation-Evolution Controvery is Important with a post of his own, Barbarians at the Gate. It appears that was his gentle way of telling me [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Olson responded to my post Why the Creation-Evolution Controvery is Important with a post of his own, Barbarians at the Gate. It appears that was his gentle way of telling me [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Larry B</title>
		<link>http://henrysthreads.com/2007/09/why-the-creation-evolution-controversy-is-important/comment-page-1/#comment-69249</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Sep 2007 03:01:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.energionpubs.com/wordpress/?p=903#comment-69249</guid>
		<description>Having briefly studied the history of science during my college years, I find it difficult to agree with your statement.  The scientific method itself has been a continual source of debate and topic for philosophers and scientists alike for a long time.  The methods whereby legitimate knowledge can be derived have been malleable for quite some time.  The first recorded use I know of a disciplined approach to science was by an islamic optical scientist in 1000 AD who managed to finally dispel the idea that light was emanating from the eyes and illuminating objects to be seen and was instead coming from the objects themselves by either self luminescence or reflection of light.  (thank goodness he had done so, because I rely on that science to make my living)

Relatively recently modern philosophers like Hume have helped to shape what we now think of as a modern scientific method.  So it&#039;s not so cut and dry as to say that science is impervious due to the use of the &quot;scientific method&quot;.  Much of what passes for science in the public today would fail as pseudoscience when held up to the scrutiny of recent thinking about what the scientific method actually entails.  

It&#039;s especially true when you begin to deal with theories that try to deal with phenomenon that we can&#039;t directly test and observe, such as an evolutionary argument for the origin of life.  It is certainly clearly demonstrable by experiment that evolutionary principles are valid - this has been well proven by science.  It isn&#039;t, however, clearly demostrable through the use of the scientific method that these processes were responsible for the origin of life on earth.  This requires the use of various other types of reasoning that have throughout time have sometimes been permitted or sometimes disallowed as part of scientific inquiry.  

All that is to say, that science itself isn&#039;t so black and white as it is commonly purported to be, even today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having briefly studied the history of science during my college years, I find it difficult to agree with your statement.  The scientific method itself has been a continual source of debate and topic for philosophers and scientists alike for a long time.  The methods whereby legitimate knowledge can be derived have been malleable for quite some time.  The first recorded use I know of a disciplined approach to science was by an islamic optical scientist in 1000 AD who managed to finally dispel the idea that light was emanating from the eyes and illuminating objects to be seen and was instead coming from the objects themselves by either self luminescence or reflection of light.  (thank goodness he had done so, because I rely on that science to make my living)</p>
<p>Relatively recently modern philosophers like Hume have helped to shape what we now think of as a modern scientific method.  So it&#8217;s not so cut and dry as to say that science is impervious due to the use of the &#8220;scientific method&#8221;.  Much of what passes for science in the public today would fail as pseudoscience when held up to the scrutiny of recent thinking about what the scientific method actually entails.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s especially true when you begin to deal with theories that try to deal with phenomenon that we can&#8217;t directly test and observe, such as an evolutionary argument for the origin of life.  It is certainly clearly demonstrable by experiment that evolutionary principles are valid &#8211; this has been well proven by science.  It isn&#8217;t, however, clearly demostrable through the use of the scientific method that these processes were responsible for the origin of life on earth.  This requires the use of various other types of reasoning that have throughout time have sometimes been permitted or sometimes disallowed as part of scientific inquiry.  </p>
<p>All that is to say, that science itself isn&#8217;t so black and white as it is commonly purported to be, even today.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry B</title>
		<link>http://henrysthreads.com/2007/09/why-the-creation-evolution-controversy-is-important/comment-page-1/#comment-69239</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Sep 2007 02:28:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.energionpubs.com/wordpress/?p=903#comment-69239</guid>
		<description>Wouldn&#039;t the same be true of religion through it&#039;s own disciplines such as theology and apologetics?  I don&#039;t see such a sharp division between the two field in terms of their rigor of inquiry.  I do think science and religion operate in two different spheres and answer different questions, but I still fail to see how science can be viewed as being more reliable than religion in the maters it attempts to answer.  

There are bad scientists and good scientists as well as bad and good theologians.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wouldn&#8217;t the same be true of religion through it&#8217;s own disciplines such as theology and apologetics?  I don&#8217;t see such a sharp division between the two field in terms of their rigor of inquiry.  I do think science and religion operate in two different spheres and answer different questions, but I still fail to see how science can be viewed as being more reliable than religion in the maters it attempts to answer.  </p>
<p>There are bad scientists and good scientists as well as bad and good theologians.</p>
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		<title>By: Pseudo-Polymath &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Barbarians at the Gates</title>
		<link>http://henrysthreads.com/2007/09/why-the-creation-evolution-controversy-is-important/comment-page-1/#comment-69238</link>
		<dc:creator>Pseudo-Polymath &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Barbarians at the Gates</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Sep 2007 02:17:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.energionpubs.com/wordpress/?p=903#comment-69238</guid>
		<description>[...] Neufeld over at Threads from Henry&#8217;s Web has started a conversation on ID. Joe Carter (Evangelical Outpost) and Matthew Anderson (Mere [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Neufeld over at Threads from Henry&#8217;s Web has started a conversation on ID. Joe Carter (Evangelical Outpost) and Matthew Anderson (Mere [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Henry Neufeld</title>
		<link>http://henrysthreads.com/2007/09/why-the-creation-evolution-controversy-is-important/comment-page-1/#comment-69161</link>
		<dc:creator>Henry Neufeld</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Sep 2007 17:26:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.energionpubs.com/wordpress/?p=903#comment-69161</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
Science never exists in a pure unadulterated form. It always has the taint of our humanity and as such it should always be viewed with some skepticism.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I don&#039;t believe I have assumed that science is perfect.  What I am assuming is that science has the means of correcting its errors, however long that may take.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>
Science never exists in a pure unadulterated form. It always has the taint of our humanity and as such it should always be viewed with some skepticism.
</p></blockquote>
<p>I don&#8217;t believe I have assumed that science is perfect.  What I am assuming is that science has the means of correcting its errors, however long that may take.</p>
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		<title>By: Henry Neufeld</title>
		<link>http://henrysthreads.com/2007/09/why-the-creation-evolution-controversy-is-important/comment-page-1/#comment-69121</link>
		<dc:creator>Henry Neufeld</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Sep 2007 12:56:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.energionpubs.com/wordpress/?p=903#comment-69121</guid>
		<description>Joe Carter has posted on this topic at &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.evangelicaloutpost.com/archives/003959.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the evangelical outpost&lt;/a&gt;.  I didn&#039;t receive a trackback, but I believe his comments will be of interest to readers of this post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe Carter has posted on this topic at <a href="http://www.evangelicaloutpost.com/archives/003959.html" rel="nofollow">the evangelical outpost</a>.  I didn&#8217;t receive a trackback, but I believe his comments will be of interest to readers of this post.</p>
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		<title>By: ReginadSkeptic</title>
		<link>http://henrysthreads.com/2007/09/why-the-creation-evolution-controversy-is-important/comment-page-1/#comment-69083</link>
		<dc:creator>ReginadSkeptic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Sep 2007 10:12:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.energionpubs.com/wordpress/?p=903#comment-69083</guid>
		<description>Larry, while it is true that individual scientists are as prone as anyone else to undue influence, bias, and error, the scientific method allows us to identify and correct these errors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Larry, while it is true that individual scientists are as prone as anyone else to undue influence, bias, and error, the scientific method allows us to identify and correct these errors.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry B</title>
		<link>http://henrysthreads.com/2007/09/why-the-creation-evolution-controversy-is-important/comment-page-1/#comment-68980</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Sep 2007 01:13:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.energionpubs.com/wordpress/?p=903#comment-68980</guid>
		<description>I agree mostly with you until your last couple of paragraphs.  Science isn&#039;t nor has it ever been, free from religious and societal influence.  So while you might object to the current dogmatism being imposed by creationists, you can&#039;t view science as an innocent party in this debate. 

One of the most compelling examples I came across in my early study of my chosen field (optics) was how Newton&#039;s ideas on what light actually is were able to dominate for so long even in the face of contrary evidence.  Partly because of Newton&#039;s personality and the respect which he garnered, and partly because of societies leanings at the time.  This doens&#039;t mean his science was shabby or that it was even completely wrong.  It was in fact partially correct, just not the entire story.  Yet it took a very long time to unseat his conceptions within the scientific community and allow for a more cogent theory of light.  

Science never exists in a pure unadulterated form.  It always has the taint of our humanity and as such it should always be viewed with some skepticism.  If you haven&#039;t read Faster than the Speed of Light by Magueijo it is a good read to see just how human our scientific system of knowledge is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree mostly with you until your last couple of paragraphs.  Science isn&#8217;t nor has it ever been, free from religious and societal influence.  So while you might object to the current dogmatism being imposed by creationists, you can&#8217;t view science as an innocent party in this debate. </p>
<p>One of the most compelling examples I came across in my early study of my chosen field (optics) was how Newton&#8217;s ideas on what light actually is were able to dominate for so long even in the face of contrary evidence.  Partly because of Newton&#8217;s personality and the respect which he garnered, and partly because of societies leanings at the time.  This doens&#8217;t mean his science was shabby or that it was even completely wrong.  It was in fact partially correct, just not the entire story.  Yet it took a very long time to unseat his conceptions within the scientific community and allow for a more cogent theory of light.  </p>
<p>Science never exists in a pure unadulterated form.  It always has the taint of our humanity and as such it should always be viewed with some skepticism.  If you haven&#8217;t read Faster than the Speed of Light by Magueijo it is a good read to see just how human our scientific system of knowledge is.</p>
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