Comments on: God Delusion and The Bible http://henrysthreads.com/2007/04/god-delusion-and-the-bible/ Thoughts on Religion in the World from a passionate, moderate, liberal charismatic Christian Thu, 09 Feb 2012 02:11:25 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Henry Neufeld http://henrysthreads.com/2007/04/god-delusion-and-the-bible/comment-page-1/#comment-36733 Henry Neufeld Sat, 14 Apr 2007 00:29:37 +0000 http://www.energionpubs.com/wordpress/?p=663#comment-36733 I think you have some excellent points on those particular stories, but very much like liberals often just say "don't take it so literally" without specifying just how one <em>should</em> take it, many conservatives in my experience try to cover all the violence in the Old Testament with "God commanded it, so it's OK." I'm particularly distressed to encounter Christians who are completely unaware of these passage and who are then severely shaken when someone points them out. That seems to me to be an important function of Christian education programs in churches. The book <a href="http://www.energionpubs.com/ep_detail.php?sku=1893729079" rel="nofollow">Who's Afraid of the Old Testament God?</a> is by one of my undergraduate professors and takes many of these passages head on. I think you have some excellent points on those particular stories, but very much like liberals often just say “don’t take it so literally” without specifying just how one should take it, many conservatives in my experience try to cover all the violence in the Old Testament with “God commanded it, so it’s OK.”

I’m particularly distressed to encounter Christians who are completely unaware of these passage and who are then severely shaken when someone points them out. That seems to me to be an important function of Christian education programs in churches.

The book Who’s Afraid of the Old Testament God? is by one of my undergraduate professors and takes many of these passages head on.

]]> By: Peter Kirk http://henrysthreads.com/2007/04/god-delusion-and-the-bible/comment-page-1/#comment-36316 Peter Kirk Wed, 11 Apr 2007 14:31:26 +0000 http://www.energionpubs.com/wordpress/?p=663#comment-36316 <i>I would say that someone who can read Judges 17-21 or Numbers 31 without serious concern has a problem with their moral compass.</i> Judges 17-21 is simply a story about some very regrettable things which happened a long time ago. Similarly brutal events were common in the ancient world and still happen in some areas today. Of course I condemn such happenings, but so does the Bible (e.g. Judges 21:25), so I have no moral problem. Numbers 31 does cause more concern because these brutalities appear to have been commanded by God. But in fact were they? The LORD commanded a war of "vengeance" against the Midianites, a response to their part in causing the plague which killed 24,000 Israelites. This reminds me of the USA's response of "vengeance" against Afghanistan and Iraq after 9/11. But there is no sign that the LORD commanded the genocide of the Midianites which follows; this seems to have been Moses' idea. This is not to say that there are no places in the Bible where God commands things which by our own modern and moderate standards are repulsive. And we need to find ways to deal with these without rejecting the Bible out of hand. But we also need to choose our examples carefully, and realise that often the Bible is an account of very wrong and immoral things which happened and which are certainly not to be taken as normative. I would say that someone who can read Judges 17-21 or Numbers 31 without serious concern has a problem with their moral compass.

Judges 17-21 is simply a story about some very regrettable things which happened a long time ago. Similarly brutal events were common in the ancient world and still happen in some areas today. Of course I condemn such happenings, but so does the Bible (e.g. Judges 21:25), so I have no moral problem.

Numbers 31 does cause more concern because these brutalities appear to have been commanded by God. But in fact were they? The LORD commanded a war of “vengeance” against the Midianites, a response to their part in causing the plague which killed 24,000 Israelites. This reminds me of the USA’s response of “vengeance” against Afghanistan and Iraq after 9/11. But there is no sign that the LORD commanded the genocide of the Midianites which follows; this seems to have been Moses’ idea.

This is not to say that there are no places in the Bible where God commands things which by our own modern and moderate standards are repulsive. And we need to find ways to deal with these without rejecting the Bible out of hand. But we also need to choose our examples carefully, and realise that often the Bible is an account of very wrong and immoral things which happened and which are certainly not to be taken as normative.

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