I have heard many good things about Mars Hill Church in Seattle, despite some theological disagreements (with whom do I not have such disagreements?) so I was disappointed to receive the following via e-mail from a friend: Theological reasons for why Mars Hill preaches out of the ESV.
This isn’t intended as an attack on the ESV. I put the slogan “the best Bible version is one you read.” If you find your Bible reading life lighting up when you read the ESV, then by all means use it for reading and study. If the carefully gender accurate language of such versions as the NRSV grates on your nerves, then by all means use it, but admit that it’s because of your language tastes, and not because of theology. If you’re reading the ESV because you think it is theologically more correct, or because it more accurately and clearly conveys the message of scripture to the populace in general, then I urge you to think again.
The stated fundamental assumption is one of inspiration. I don’t agree with the Mars Hill stand on Biblical inspiration, but I’m not going to dispute that. Rather, I want to ask if their stand on inspiration does really underly the remainder of their statement, or whether it actually stands on something else–something much less well founded. I quote:
1. The ESV upholds the truth that Scripture is the very words of God, not just the thoughts of God.
This point is inextricably connected to the doctrine of verbal plenary inspiration, which means that God the Holy Spirit inspired not just the thoughts of Scripture but the very words and details. . . .
Now here’s the problem. If God inspired the very words and details, he did not do so in English. He did so in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. I have no problem with this, but then I don’t believe in verbal plenary inspiration. It is obvious that in translation one must without exception alter the “words and details” of the source text, for the simple reason that an English translation contains no words in Hebrew, Aramaic, or Greek, with the exception of a few transliterations. One assumes that Pastor Mark Driscoll is aware of this fact, but he glosses over it, as do most advocates of literal, word for word translation.
The practice actually reflects an argument used for many years by KJV Only advocates, who compare every new version to the KJV, and then call every change from the KJV in a modern version a change in the scriptures. They accuse the modern versions of altering the words of scripture. But what words are altered? The words of a translation that has no authority whatsoever over the source texts. When a translator uses a word/phrase in the receptor language to reflect a word/phrase in the source language, that doesn’t make the two equivalent. It is simply the way that translator thought was best to convey the thought of the text in the source language in the receptor language. It is critically important to state this correctly: The translator(s) of a new Bible translation do not alter the words of scripture, they reflect the words of scripture in a different way, using different words.
Some people are going to think I’m being unfair, but stripped of all the extra verbage, Pastor Mark Driscoll’s argument is, in fact, no more sophisticated than the KJV Only argument on this point. Let’s look at some illustrations. Under point “4. The ESV upholds the theological nomenclature of Scripture” Driscoll says:
First, one of the central debates of the Protestant Reformation was how a sinful person is justified before a holy and righteous God. This issue was so contentious that people died over it and Christianity split over it; it is not a trivial matter. Romans 3:24 is one of many places where “justification” is spoken of in the original text of Scripture. An examination of various translations, however, shows how the word is sometimes omitted altogether:
The Impossibility of Verbal Plenary Translation…
Henry Neufeld has just responded to Mark Driscoll’s new article, Theological reasons for why Mars Hill preaches out of the ESV. Henry argues, correctly in my opinion, that Driscoll is wrong in claiming that a proper approach to Bible translation will …
This is an excellent critique. Thank you for taking the time to write it!
[...] On my Threads blog I comment on Pastor Mark Driscoll’s theological basis for using the ESV at Mars Hill Church. In that article Driscoll makes a special point of the translation of the Hebrew “‘adam” in Genesis 1:27 by the NRSV and NLT: Translations such as the New Revised Standard accommodate this by wrongly translating “male and female” in Genesis 1:27 as the androgynous “humankind.” The New Living Bible translates it as the genderless “people.” [...]
Great post! Rather detailed – I’ll admit to skimming parts but I will return when I have more time to read fully as this is a subject I am very interested in and you always have a good opinion. In my opinion. Thanks.
this is a great post… my dad was a church planter / translator in Papua New Guinea… he was asked once if he translated from the King James Version… ? I appreciate these thoughts.
In our house church, we have a variety of favorites, for all sorts of reasons, and some of us have definitely had to lay aside our prejudices for certain translations!!
Thanks! I always like to hear from people who have some experience with Bible translation. A variety of translations can certainly help in any small group (or large group) study. You sound like you have a good idea there in your house church.
Thanks for your kind words. This is one of those posts that can’t be the right length–either I didn’t cover everything or it’s too detailed. I compromised, and now it probably has both faults!
[...] My own time has been occupied bringing reports of the new by-laws adopted at the November annual board meeting for Pacesetters Bible School, and calling for nominations from Pacesetters members for the Bible Pacesetter Award, now to be given annually. On Threads from Henry’s Web, I jumped into the discussion of theology and the ESV, pretty much with both feet, and I added something to that debate on my Participatory Bible Study Blog. Finally, on the Jevlir Caravansary, I provided a brief note on the Lord Meren Mysteries by Lynda S. Robinson, and which are set in ancient Egypt. [...]
[...] My own time has been occupied bringing reports of the new by-laws adopted at the November annual board meeting for Pacesetters Bible School, and calling for nominations from Pacesetters members for the Bible Pacesetter Award, now to be given annually. On Threads from Henry’s Web, I jumped into the discussion of theology and the ESV, pretty much with both feet, and I added something to that debate on my Participatory Bible Study Blog. Finally, on the Jevlir Caravansary, I provided a brief note on the Lord Meren Mysteries by Lynda S. Robinson, and which are set in ancient Egypt. Share and Enjoy:These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages. [...]
[...] Henry Neufeld: The Impossibility of Verbal Plenary Translations. [...]
Is Verbal Plenary Translation Impossible????…
In his post The Impossibility of Verbal Plenary Translation, Henry Neufeld discusses Bible translation with a critique on Mark Driscoll’s new article Theological reasons for why Mars Hill preaches out of the ESV. I recommend this post by Henry for……
henry,
i’ve read the mars hill post and yours as well. i appreciate your time and energy into pulling your thoughts together here. it’s extremely helpful as i consider this issue.
a thought occured to me. what if someone in a non-english speaking country wanted a bible in the ESV. let’s take vietnamese for example. would scholars of translate the ESV into vietnamese or would they translate directly from the greek and hebrew?
thank you for your time.
brad
[...] Today I found a couple of posts by way of a trackback to my threads blog, in which the author notes that he recommends my article to stimulate thinking, even though he clearly disagrees with it. I actually can’t think of a better reason to recommend reading a post, so let me recommend a couple of his on the same basis. Well, let me add that his first principle of “context, context, context” receives my complete agreement, though I disagree on some details. At some point I hope to respond to his second post on interpretation in accordance with the gospel, but I don’t have time right now to do it justice. [...]
Translating the Bible (or, Why smart people say stupid things) …
I was very surprised yesterday to read the most recent statement from Driscoll and his church, regarding a change they are making in what Bible translation they will use. It surprised me not because they are changing Bible translations (I could really …
Here comes the ESVO crowd!
Having been KJVO in the past it is crystal clear to me how a popular translation’s choice of words can define theology and church life for billions. Backed by “scripture,” they become unchallengable. The wording of the KJV has given us entire church and theological constructs whose basis needs to be understood for what it is.
One of the interesting things I noted was that the ESV used the word “church(es)” less than most other versions. The use of the word “church(es)” and the word “tongue(s)” in modern versions conjure up images that may or may not be consistent with the “sematic scope” of the autograph.
“semantic scope”
I started using an ESV when the church I was going to printed the scripture for the liturgy in the bulletin and it was ESV. I loved the simplicity of the language – I think you’ve mentioned awkward syntax somewhere else but I’ve never noticed it. Currently my favorite is my Serendipity NIV, because the questions in the margin mix reflection, clarification and application and help me to look at familiar passages in new ways.
Thank you for such a thorough and well-supported post. Yeah, kinda long, but I didn’t think it was TOO long
And I’m glad you can be emphatic without being nasty.
Does the ESV-only diatribe seem a bit cultish? Or is that just me?
I find some of the ESV language a bit awkward, though it doesn’t bother me much. One funny thing about all of this is that I find the ESV quite comfortable to read. At the same time I realize that many of the people I might want to reach with the Bible message may not find it so easy.
I don’t see any ESV advocates as cultish at the moment. They are using some “cult-like” arguments, but certainly haven’t cut themselves off from discussion. Mars Hill Church, for example, has many things to commend it.
[...] The Impossibility of Verbal Plenary Translation [...]
[...] Henry and I myself have all had a few things to say about Mark Driscoll’s article Theological [...]
[...] while back I blogged on Mark Driscoll’s reasons for using the ESV at his church. But with highly credentialed people to feed pastors misinformation, what should we [...]
[...] John Piper, Philip Ryken, and Mark Driscoll. I’ve dealt with Mark Driscoll’s comments before (more recently here), though he has revised the material a bit, but the bottom line is still the [...]
[...] Well, I’ve found a second thing today that I would like to say isn’t true, but there it is. Via Locusts and Honey and Ignite I found this article by Mark Driscoll. Now I must confess Driscoll has been dropping lower on my favorite list after his comments on the ESV which I discussed here. [...]
Very interesting website. Keep up the outstanding work and thank you…
If a person is looking for an NASB type Bible that is more consistent and readable, then I say use the ESV. Yes, it has its weaknesses, but it is still a good translation.
However, if you’re looking for a great flow and faithfulness to the original, I recommend the NIV/TNIV, NET and HCSB.
I’ve been an NASB user for sometime, my preaching and teaching Bible, but I’ve given it up because while it attempts to be literal, not only is it awkward, but it is also inconsistent.
[...] 15, 2008 by Christian Striver Henry Neufeld: The Impossibility of Verbal Plenary Translations. Mark Driscoll: Theological Reasons MarsHill Church is Using the ESV Bible [...]
[...] Neufeld: The Impossibility of Verbal Plenary Translations. Mark Driscoll: Theological Reasons MarsHill Church is Using the ESV Bible Translation. [...]
[...] got to say, this makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to me. This article articulates my thoughts better than I will, but I’ll say this: to suggest that God himself used the word [...]
[...] Threads from Henry
[...] Threads from Henrys Web " The Impossibility of Verbal Plenary Translation [...]